European Mindset: Are they all against guns or is it just me?

[Blackbeard]

Once again Americans are demonstrating their ignorance of the rest of the world through loud proclamating statements about peple they know nothing about. If you want to ditch the stereotype, do some research on your own of different countries, hop on a plane and spend a week in Europe.

HG makes a good point. This thread started to make the point that we don't like it when they categorize all Americans as psycho-crazy mass murdering cowboys. We shouldn't repeat the mistake by saying all Europeans are linguini-spined liberal serfs. There is certainly no uniformity of thought on any subject on either continent.

I wonder how many of the Europeans who want Americans to disarm have ever spent even one day over here. I've lived here my entire life and I've never heard a shot fired in anger.

 

[Dark Skies]

"Fosbery - Another thing that annoys me is that British pro-gun groups never EVER mention self-defence, or defence from government or anything like that. ALl they ever talk about it sports and hunting. I love shooting sports and I'm all for people hunting but that's NOT what a right to arms is for. "

The trouble is we do not have a written constitution in which a right to bear arms is enshrined. What we have is The 1689 Bill of Rights. Specifically:

"That the Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law. "

As you can see there are two things wrong with this sentence. Firstly it specifically gives rights exclusively to Protestants - and therefore is automatically cut down by modern statutes that (rightly) prohibit discrimination. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly in this context, the Bill of Rights is clearly vulnerable to any subsequent law by the phrase "suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law.".

So the Bill of Rights can be and has been watered down by politicians to render it merely of historical interest.

And good luck on trying to get British shooting groups to play the self-defense angle. Remember how ordinary shooters were villified as 'gun nuts' and members of a 'sinister gun culture' by politicians, the media, and Snowdrop after Dunblane? Regular shooters have only fairly recently been forgotten about by the more rabid anti-gunners. We've been replaced by knife carrying thugs and gun wielding gang members as the nations's favourite bogeyman. The last thing shooting groups want to do is start clamouring for the right to bear arms for self-defence and draw attention towards us. We'd be back to being members of a 'sinister gun culture that must be stamped out.'

Far more prudent to keep our heads down, quietly enjoy our shooting, and wait for the constant rise of unchecked violent crime combined with ineffective policing to induce the general public to demand a means to protect themselves.

 

[redneckdan]

My grand daddy told me a story long ago about a field hand working a ranch out west many years ago. An aristocrate from the european contient was touring the country side on horse back and happend across the field hand while he was stringing fence. The aristocrate asked as to "the where abouts of your masters house".....the field hand looked up at the horse man and said "that man hasn't been born yet".... that should pretty well sum it up to you.

 

[rightside]

The media has brainwashed lots and lots of people every where. They are very important in government control. Be carefull of believing what you hear, check your own facts.

 

[bob.a]

I had a Greek med student as a houseguest for many months, and in fact knew him for several years before he got into med school. He hails frome Crete, his dad was a high-ranked officer in the Greek air force, and the young man went to high school and college in the US.

He tells me that on his home island, there are LOTS of firearms, including full auto. No one there is interested in giving them up, or telling the govt about them, and they are brought out at wedding and such, when there's a lot of celebratory shooting going on.

He's completely comfortable with that, totally in favor of the concept of firearm ownership.

Sadly, he's now un the UK doing research, because of the great difficulties in renewing a visa for work and study in the US; all this visa stuff was post-9/11 of course. I'm afraid the govt shot itself in the foot by restricting trhe ability of intelligent hardworking foreigners to even enter the country.

On the other hand, there's a gent from Germany in the flying club I used to belong to, who works for the World Bank (I think). When another member commented in email about violent criminal assaults by Hispanic gangbangers in the area where we hold our meetings, and I mentioned the impossibility of going around armed in Maryland, the German fellow made some disparaging remarks about American gun culture. You'd think a German would have a little distrust of govenments in general, but I guess he feels otherwise.

Still, the Germans do make some fine pistols. I'm fond of my HKs and Walthers.

 

[lykoris]

I think the basic premise that Europeans by in large are anti-gun is true....primarily because so few are exposed or know about guns as a percentage of the overall population as it is not a right in any constitution.

I don't like how the E.U. has so clearly become anti-democratic and it is all about control...those that pull the strings behind.

removal of a tyrannical government by force/defense are the two most important reasons for citizens to bear firearms.

here in Europe we are fighting a losing battle talking about sports/hunting purposes....bring up the other two you're shooting yourself in the foot...many European governments have been quoted as saying...'not going down the gun culture road of the US' or words to that effect.

I hope to move to Switzerland in the near future, the gun laws are very relaxed here...but I see that changing when Ireland revotes again on the European constitution...erghhh Lisbon Treaty and they bring in more anti-gun legislation. Over here if the people vote NO against a European Treaty, they have to re-vote until they say YES.

If I every move to the US, the 1st thing I would do would become a life member of the NRA.

we're totally screwed in Europe.(gun owners I mean)