Ever had a dealer refuse to accept a transfer Buds?

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What I meant was, since there is no law against it, they can charge whatever they want to. But when you charge a hundred bucks for 5 minutes of your time, I think it's price gouging, and there should be a law against that. The same way the post office has rates, so should gun dealers, I think it would stimulate online sales, and make a better market for the buyers.

Wow. Most gun people I've met are pretty solidly against government interference in business. Letting the government dictate prices seems like a good way to drive people out of the business.

Around here FFLs all charge $20-25 probably due to competition. We've got a couple of guys that do transfers as a side business and as a result the fees stay low.
 
Wow. Most gun people I've met are pretty solidly against government interference in business. Letting the government dictate prices seems like a good way to drive people out of the business.

Around here FFLs all charge $20-25 probably due to competition. We've got a couple of guys that do transfers as a side business and as a result the fees stay low.
Haha. I used to think that until I joined THR.
 
What I meant was, since there is no law against it, they can charge whatever they want to. But when you charge a hundred bucks for 5 minutes of your time, I think it's price gouging, and there should be a law against that. The same way the post office has rates, so should gun dealers, I think it would stimulate online sales, and make a better market for the buyers.
I know the guys with FFL's are going to flame away, but just like you can have a car or tires sent to a local shop for delivery so should you be able to get a gun delivered for a 25-35 dollar flat rate. It's kind of like everyone charging whatever they wanted to mail a letter, which is what we have now. If you need to have a firearm mailed to another state, because you are moving, "for instance" and don't wish to have the responsibility of guarding a couple dozen guns on the drive, it shouldn't cost you 2,400 dollars to send them. There should be a flat reasonable rate for such things, not 25% of the cost of the gun.
Stop with this socialist government intervention nonsense. Let the markets work.

Sorry. I know that is not very THR of me. But good lord. I cannot believe how prevalent this type of thought is in this country. This line of reasoning will be our downfall.
 
Perhaps, the LGS is different in MI where we have several large independent stores that have large 500-1000 gun inventories. I know of a couple of shops that a one location stores with quarter of a million dollar credit lines from Browning. And in those stores cases (maintaining that large of an overhead) the 40-50% ratio is a recipe for failure.

As far as 30-40% gross margin, their are very few retail operations in any segment that survive on less. The only exception to my knowledge is Wal Mart who come in at about 27%, but they do it with absurd volumes and sacrifice service to do it. I'm not suggesting you have to gross 30-40% on a gun to make it. Only that by the end of the day the total receipts verses the inventory turned you need that amount when you look at the real overhead of a retail business.

It can be range fees, gunsmithing work, hunting clothing, tactical gear, gun cleaning, ammo, even transfers, whatever. And remember what I said about making money on money. Many of these stores will sell a product 2-3 times before they pay for it once. That is extra money interest free in the till too. But after you take out inventory cost, taxes, payroll including HC , utilities, Legal costs, and rent 30-40% doesn't sound like a whole lot.

Back in the days when retail was exploding and high end malls were the rage, a location in a high rent mall needed to clear closer to 50% to break even.
Great. A lot of us on this board are well aware of the costs. But you didnt respond to my point. That was that gun transfers should be incremental gains. And if, according to your math, you can make those gains at a 50 ratio, that would add to your desired margin. You are right I guess by looking at it as a zero sum game. But smart business people know better.
 
Yes LGS in Ocala. A customer got a bad gun from Bud's and wanted to return it. Bud's gave the Dealer all kinds of trouble. He no longer accepts shipments from Buds. I also had a hard time with them and won't deal with them any longer.
Exactly what happened with my favorite LGS about a year ago. He will no longer accept anything from Bud's.
 
I lived In a town that mon I the LGS's would accept from buds. Had to drive a hour plus to find someone to transfer. Needless to say I didn't order from them.
 
Our newest local gun store seems to be "with it". Ask for something that isn't in the case and they will be on the phone or computer looking it up and telling you what they can get it for, if they can get it at all. If they can't order it they tell you to buy it from whoever has one because that's today's market.

My kitchen table FFL dealer still does transfers at a bargain price. I was worried they would disappear but they're still around even after surviving an audit, so it must be worth their time and hassle.
 
Originally Posted by gym View Post
What I meant was, since there is no law against it, they can charge whatever they want to. But when you charge a hundred bucks for 5 minutes of your time, I think it's price gouging, and there should be a law against that. The same way the post office has rates, so should gun dealers, I think it would stimulate online sales, and make a better market for the buyers.

You CANNOT be serious.....WOW

You have a LOT to learn.......start with this about your BS-called "gouging":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9QEkw6_O6w

and then study history about what happens with what you are suggesting - it happened in Europe in the 20s and 30s
 
When I managed an LGS, we didn't accept transfers from Bud's. We never minded online businesses. Perfectly happy collecting transfer fees and getting accessory sales as a byproduct. Bud's was simply a pain to deal with.
 
Oneounceoflead, is back, with his antics again. Didn't you get in enough trouble in the other dozen forums your constantly starting trouble on. Stick to shotguns.
Who cares what happened 70 years ago in Europe, grow up.
 
I for one believe that customers will regulate the cost when there is free market. Here in Fl. dealers were allowed to charge up to $15 for a call in fee. Customers complained or took their business elsewhere. Now the standard in my area is $5.00.

Same way with transfers. People won't use dealers that charge too much and find one that is acceptable. This can't be said for businesses who have a monopoly on the area market, as in the DC example.
 
Yes about 4 years ago a large shop siad no Bud's or CDNN so I no longer buy anything from them. IT took me 5 minutes on the phone to find another dealer who had no problem with Buds or CDNN, in fact they told me they would match Bud's price so I ordered from them, and even bought a consignment gun from them also later that year.
 
Stop with this socialist government intervention nonsense. Let the markets work.

It does not work, every gun store around here charges $50.00 for a transfer. That is called "Price Fixing" and is illegal even though no one prosecutes them for it.

I find that the local gun store owners around here are stupid, they would rather lose all business from a customer than match the market price on firearms. If you try to tell me they are losing on a price match, you are smoking something other than tobacco.

I shed no tears when they go out of business, they deserve to. They sell guns around here for $450 to $600 dollars that retail in other states for $350 to $395.

I am fed up with their take it or leave it attitude.

Jim
 
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Oh good grief...........

gym.... The same way the post office has rates, so should gun dealers....
And undoubtedly you would be posting in a thread "Government imposed transfer fee is toooooo high!!!!!" soon after such an idea became law.

If you want price fixing and MORE government imposed control of the firearms business I doubt you'll get much sympathy on this or any other forum.

All those who think transfers are quick, easy and rake in massive profits for the dealer..........ain't never been in the gun business. Spend an evening with me to see how much time I devote to doing nothing but transfers.


gym Oneounceoflead, is back, with his antics again. Didn't you get in enough trouble in the other dozen forums your constantly starting trouble on. Stick to shotguns.
Who cares what happened 70 years ago in Europe, grow up.
Rather than attack the messenger, educate yourself on what "price gouging" really is.;)
 
Hurryin' Hoosier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpawstag View Post
Yes LGS in Ocala. A customer got a bad gun from Bud's and wanted to return it. Bud's gave the Dealer all kinds of trouble. He no longer accepts shipments from Buds. I also had a hard time with them and won't deal with them any longer.

Exactly what happened with my favorite LGS about a year ago. He will no longer accept anything from Bud's.
Sorry, but I call BS on the "Bud's gave the Dealer all kinds of trouble" theory.
I do 10-12 transfers a week from Bud's. Without question they are the easiest, most efficient large volume internet seller that I do business with.

In the last five years I've had customers return all of FOUR firearms to Bud's.....in every case it was a FACTORY mistake, not a Bud's mistake. Bud's emailed me a UPS label and the return was easy.


RBid When I managed an LGS, we didn't accept transfers from Bud's. We never minded online businesses. Perfectly happy collecting transfer fees and getting accessory sales as a byproduct. Bud's was simply a pain to deal with.
Please explain.:scrutiny:
The way it works for me:
1. Customer orders gun from Bud's, selects Hart Sports as his transfer dealer.
2. Bud's ships gun to me (and sticks an invoice on the outside of the box with their FFL#, customer name and phone# and firearm info)
3. On arrival, I contact customer for pickup.

It ain't rocket science and I fail to see any opportunity for Bud's to be "...a pain to deal with".
 
jim243
Quote:
Stop with this socialist government intervention nonsense. Let the markets work.

It does not work, every gun store around here charges $50.00 for a transfer. That is called "Price Fixing" and is illegal even though no one prosecutes them for it.
First off........where is "around here"?:confused:
Second, it ain't price fixing, simply having similar fees isn't illegal.
Third, if you are going to a LGS for the cheapest transfer fees you're doing it wrong.;)
 
All I'm saying is thank them for it and realize they are doing you a favor. It may be good business to do them (to increase traffic), but for a well stocked full service shop it's a net loser. And remember that if your LGS goes out of business odds are you'll be left with fewer choices and maybe a 200 mile drive to save money on that "great internet deal".

Lol, thanks for the good laugh.
Are you serious?
We should thank them for spending our money in their store?
Seriously?
They should thank us for choosing them to take our money. We also get to walk into their store and stumble into their incredible displays and marketing they do. We can't help but stumble on a display of ammo or reloading components while we wait. We also get to look at holsters and other stuff we may want for our new toy. Look! They have a nice single stage for $75 they took in on trade. Maybe I'll buy it. WoW! UPS just dropped off some .22LR ammo that morning. If I wasn't there for my labor intense transfer I doubt I would have gotten any.

Oh, your LGS doesn't do displays and marketing? You have to "know" the guy behind the counter to get any .22s or high demand powder? Well, your LGS has issues, too many to discuss here.

Lol, it's too hard to type while laughing.

I am still amazed at how many people don't utilize the home-based FFLs. They are all over. They fill the niche of the ridiculous fees some stores charge and also fill the niche of the rural customers. Driving 200 miles to an FFL? I'd bet there's a home-based FFL within an hour unless you live in the most remote areas in the country. If you do, you already know you trade open spaces for convenience. One local, stubborn LGS closes and 2 home-based FFLs open. They are all over. You just have to look for them. They don't advertise due to the cost and every one I've seen has more business than they thought they'd ever have.
 
"All I'm saying is thank them for it and realize they are doing you a favor."


This is why I have walked out of gun shops. Not because the staff was busy with customers, selling or doing transfers. No, I have walked bout because the staff acted like they were doing me a favor by letting me in the store. I have walked out due to rude staff that seemed more interested in shooting the bull with their coworkers than waiting on a customer with cash in hand.
Transfer or sale, they are not doing me a favor. They are providing a service that I am paying for. If they don't want my money, someone else does.
 
It does not work, every gun store around here charges $50.00 for a transfer. That is called "Price Fixing" and is illegal even though no one prosecutes them for it.

I find that the local gun store owners around here are stupid, they would rather lose all business from a customer than match the market price on firearms. If you try to tell me they are losing on a price match, you are smoking something other than tobacco.

I shed no tears when they go out of business, they deserve to. They sell guns around here for $450 to $600 dollars that retail in other states for $350 to $395.

I am fed up with their take it or leave it attitude.

Jim
It does work. If their was enough demand in the 'area' for the service to be offered at a cheaper rate it would be. If the online trend continues to build someone will take advantage of it and drop prices.

It is not called price fixing. A can of Coke is 79c in every gas station around here. THat is not price fixing.

Different product drive different prices across different parts of the country depending on the market. Businesses make bad decisions making micro decisions on macro information. In other words, nobody in Washington should care what a gun sells for in Florida. THey shouldnt care what a chainsaw or a can of coke sells for in other parts of the country either.

I do generally agree with you that the LGS market is generally mismanaged however. But for different reasons.
 
I knew the FFL guys would react the way they did, but that was to be expected. If they charged 25-35 dollars we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's not just from Buds. Here in my area it's from anyware. 100 dollars is the going rate, that's just bull. They aren't doing anyone any favors when they charge above retail for guns and then top it off by making it so expensive to transfer them that you can't afford to do it, so they think people will pay their overpriced fees for a gun. That's called price fixing, since they all charge the same rate. It's buy it from us or we will make it so inconvenient for you that you have to drive 50 miles to buy it from someone for the actual going rate. It's the same with 31 dollar ammo at the range here for 9mm. Then they wonder why the gun is sitting there for a year. 1500 for a CDP, $1150 on line that's ridiculous, $879 for a cz p01, "$525" online in another large store. That's just insane, or $850 for a SR1911 average $6-650 online". If that's not price gouging I don't know what is. they aren't even close to what the guns sell for.
The gun show prices are 30 % less than the gun store prices, even with tax and call in. Why would anyone in their right mind pay these prices? The used guns are where they make their money and class 3. A dealer told me last week Sometimes you have to just pay whatever it costs. That isn't how he started his business 5 years ago, he had the lowest prices of anyone around, people were driving from Miami for a Glock at $450, now that he deals in suppressors and class 3 stuff he doesn't care about the people who built his business. Who pays whatever it costs, I never heard of such a thing, he was talking about a readily available pistol that he threw $200 over MSRP on. This is Florida, there are a lot of rip off dealers in every business here, it's the biggest scammer state in the country. They will get whatever they can, from you, unless you find a reputable guy, like my gunsmith, who will order a gun for 30 dollars, or few guys on FL shooters who also do 25 dollar transfers, but that's it don't try that in any local gun stores, it isn't happening.
 
$100, that's high at least in my experience. Prices are coming down. The gun shops that were charging more than retail are all of a sudden having "sales". The $100 sounds like a business opportunity for someone.... however, you would be surprised just how few people might actually shift their business from the $100 guy to you. It is not only about money. It would take a while for things to change in favor of the sub-100 guy. But it would happen.
 
If your local guys charge more than you are willing to pay, then drive the 50 miles you mentioned to another dealer
I look in my local stores but they are typically too hIgh, but once in a while I find a used gem. But if I needed to drive a bit to save the cash, then I would. It isn't gouging if someone is willingly paying his asking price, even if you think it is too much.
 
"All I'm saying is thank them for it and realize they are doing you a favor."


Wrong. They're doing me a SERVICE, for which I pay the requisite fee.

And thanking them should be a routine part of everyday polite behavior.


If a dealer does not wish to conduct a FFL transfer for me, for any reason, then I'll thank him for his time and move on to someone else who will provide me with the service that I need.
 
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