Ever notice this about striker fired pistol trigger reviews?

[kcofohio]

Gritty and grindy sounds like finishing issues. My P365X had a gritty feeling trigger. But with some careful and judicious polishing to a few critical points in the trigger linkage, that was all that it took to make the trigger a very smooth 7 lb pull.

Gritty feeling can also be the firing pin block plunger being depressed. But you're right, polishing the critical rubbing areas will do wonders.

 

[Old Dog]

No interest in the Equinox AXG? I was giving one a hard look the other day, but can't justify the price when I paid the same amount for a 229 Legion.

Well now, that one hadn't been on my radar as I'd never seen one in person, but I do like a shiny pistol...

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Gritty feeling can also be the firing pin block plunger being depressed. But you're right, polishing the critical rubbing areas will do wonders.

I never thought about that being a source of grittiness, but I could easily see that happening. I have seen at least one report of the striker safety/firing pin block having been seized in a Sig P365. I check mine every time I have the slide removed.

I polished the contact edges of the safety lever that pushes the striker safety downward. It's made out of a stamped piece of steel which inevitably has a roughness on the edges. But you need to be very careful not to be extreme with the polishing, otherwise you could throw off the timing and the striker safety might not be pushed out of the way before the sear releases the striker.

 

[SwampWolf]

Out of the box 1911's and Glocks really are not all that different, 5 to 6 pounds or so, and really nothing to worry about.

There's a whole lot more to evaluating how good or not so good the pull characteristics of a given trigger are than the weight of the pull. Actually, within reason and except in certain circumstances, the weight of the pull is less important than the creep, grittiness, reset, take-up, length of travel, smoothness factors, etc. are when rating triggers. No need to fret about it when you can act on it with choices and/or "tuning".

 

[trackskippy]

There's a whole lot more to evaluating how good or not so good the pull characteristics of a given trigger are than the weight of the pull. Actually, within reason and except in certain circumstances, the weight of the pull is less important than the creep, grittiness, reset, take-up, length of travel, smoothness factors, etc. are when rating triggers. No need to fret about it when you can act on it with choices and/or "tuning".

And everything you point out there suggests that your focus is on what the trigger is doing. Instead of evaluating the trigger, try putting the focus on the sights/target and just shoot.

Barring a trigger that is not within factory spec for the gun, all of what is mentioned about triggers above means nothing, if you pay it no mind, and focus on the things that place the round. If you cant do that, the fanciest and most perfect trigger in the world still wont make a bit of difference if you've lost focus on what places the round and instead, put your concentration on what the trigger is doing.

I still think that if you take the little bit of time that it takes to learn to shoot a DA revolver well, shooting it DAO, most of all the worrying about all the little things that it seems like a lot of people want to worry about, will go away, and your shooting, of all types of guns, not just handguns, will improve.

As soon as you understand that its not the trigger weight, pull, takeup, this, that, or the other thing, that's causing you to not hit what youre aiming at, things will begin to click.

 

[lsudave]

I like a good mushy sloppy trigger with a lot of creep. You never know when it’s going to go off. Keeps a guy guessing. But when it does, dang it’s good.

In a way, sort of like my women, I guess.

Ha! You'd love my Zastava CZ99, then- that's exactly how that trigger is. But as I've discovered (and as Hickock45 has shown on his review)- the gun is great in spite of itself. It's big, bulky, clunky, with a mushy trigger; and shoots like a laser.
The trigger is perfect for addressing flinches... it's so mushy and breaks so far back, you will flinch- and the gun still hasn't shot yet. Keep going, go some more, wonder if it's busted-Bang!

 

[David Hoback]

My current, (and preferred) carry gun is a Striker fired, P80sc.


I used mostly Glock trigger components when building it. “Nice”, as far as as Striker guns go, sure! But it’s no where NEAR as smooth, crisp, etc, etc…. as the last 1911 I built some years back.


For this, I used ALL Nighthawk Billet steel trigger components, and prepped each part with my expert hand. While it’s not my preferred carry, it is simply a pleasure to shoot.
The trigger feels as it’s gliding on bearings, as the .06” pre travel is taken up. Then it just falls away from your index finger. I always say, like breaking a fresh icicle over your porch railing as a kid. That satisfying “Snap”. C’mon… some of you know I mean Then, the abrupt, and quite deliberate STOP of the over travel! Striker gun better than this?? I be their pardon!
I’ve reviewed many Striker guns I’ve owned and/or used over the years. And not a one have I ever so much as alluded to having a trigger even remotely close to the 1911’s I’ve built or set up triggers on, let alone say one was better! By Oden’s Beard! That is just preposterous!

 

[rust collector]

Who is going to tell all those Apex, Timney, Canjar, Volquartson and other aftermarket trigger customers that they just threw their money away? Is it possible that they are willing to pay through the nose because it is worthwhile to them? Yes, we can adapt to different triggers to some degree, but a better trigger disturbs the gun less and allows more precision if the shooter uses good technique. As previously noted, pull weight is only one facet of a trigger system. The trigger is only one facet of attaining high scores and success, but why not have a good one?

Manufacturers won't spend any money or waste any time on good triggers if we don't demand them. Striker fired handgun triggers have improved greatly in recent years, but I see no reason to stop now.

 

[golden]

wbwanzer,

I my own experience, I would never go with just one review. Also, you have to be picky about which authors you trust. Gun magazines like all literature about any subject are there to make a profit or at least stay in business so that the authors can get paid. That is not a bad thing, it just means that really critical reviews may not be printed, especially if that same gun or product is being advertised in that month's edition of a gun magazine.
They will gloss over or minimize problems that buyers like you or I will find unacceptable.
A good source are gun web gun sites, but again take it with a grain of salt. There are many "EXPERTS" on the web who love to self proclaim that one or the other product is the great ever made and the greatest that will ever be. This is even when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

It is the same with most products, look for a really bad review of an automobile. I remember when GENERAL MOTORS announced they were shutting down the OLDSMOBILE division. After the announcement, I believe it was CAR & DRIVER magazine wrote a scathing criticism of the build quality and durability of OLDSMOBILES, yet they wrote for years about how they were competing well with TOYOTA!
In the end, I gave up on car magazines and did not renew most of my gun magazine subscriptions.

It is like the old saying, "trust, but verify".

Jim

 

[Master Blaster]

Overtravel is a huge problem for accuracy in a handgun.

Striker fired guns including Glocks have about a half inch of overtravel after they break. It's like your finger plummets over a cliff.

So This pulls your gun off target. Dry fire your gun and watch the sights when the trigger breaks. So that is something you have to fight for accuracy.

1911s have almost no overtravel. Revolver triggers in sa also have little to no overtravel.

 

[trackskippy]

I must have really weird factory guns with unaltered internals.

What Glocks are you shooting that have that much travel after the trigger breaks? Im sitting here as I type with a box stock 17 and 26, and the triggers on both stop as it breaks (I just tried a couple more, and they all seem to be the same). Just like the stock Colt Commander I have here comparing them. The resets on both are very similar as well, with the 1911's being just a tad shorter, but nothing really different.

Im also dryfiring a stock S&W Model 19 and a Model 10 in both DA and SA and either way, see no discernable difference or any travel after the trigger trips.

I think most of the manufacturers have done a pretty good job of providing reasonable factory triggers and shootable guns as they come from the box. Aftermarket stuff is BIG money and I think their marketing does a great job at working on insecurities, and sucking $$$ out of your wallet, more than it does anything else.

Personally, I think if you put all the money spent on all the "upgrades" into ammo and range time, and take advantage of as much free dryfire time as you can, youll come out way ahead on the other side, and will also be a better, all around shooter, and with pretty much anything you pick up.

At least for me, that has been the case. Keeping your "shooting muscle tone" in good shape too is something else that absolutely applies here and needs to be done, and is something a lot of people dont give a thought to.

 

[Master Blaster]

I must have really weird factory guns with unaltered internals.

What Glocks are you shooting that have that much travel after the trigger breaks? Im sitting here as I type with a box stock 17 and 26, and the triggers on both stop as it breaks (I just tried a couple more, and they all seem to be the same). Just like the stock Colt Commander I have here comparing them. The resets on both are very similar as well, with the 1911's being just a tad shorter, but nothing really different.

Im also dryfiring a stock S&W Model 19 and a Model 10 in both DA and SA and either way, see no discernable difference or any travel after the trigger trips.

I think most of the manufacturers have done a pretty good job of providing reasonable factory triggers and shootable guns as they come from the box. Aftermarket stuff is BIG money and I think their marketing does a great job at working on insecurities, and sucking $$$ out of your wallet, more than it does anything else.

Personally, I think if you put all the money spent on all the "upgrades" into ammo and range time, and take advantage of as much free dryfire time as you can, youll come out way ahead on the other side, and will also be a better, all around shooter, and with pretty much anything you pick up.

At least for me, that has been the case. Keeping your "shooting muscle tone" in good shape too is something else that absolutely applies here and needs to be done, and is something a lot of people dont give a thought to.

If you cannot understand overtravel and see no difference between a S&W model 19 in SA and a Glock. I cannot help you.

 

[trackskippy]

Thats OK, I dont have a problem with what my guns are doing. They shoot fine, and I dont have any problem shooting them well either.

And as I said, the triggers on all of them seem to stop right as the trigger breaks, with very little to no rearward movement after, which I believe is what you want, right? Or is that oversimplifying it?

And just comparing my Glocks to my S&W's, they both have very little if any rearward movement after the trigger breaks. If anything, the S&W's might have just a tad more in SA than they do in DA, but its hard to tell. Not that any of that bothers me shooting the guns either. Prior to this and actually bothering now to look since it came up, I wouldn't have ever thought what any of them were doing was an issue.

And again, Im really curious here now, what kind of Glock do you have that has a trigger overtravel of half an inch? Are you saying this is a common thing? Im not seeing it in any of mine and I have a bunch of them.

 

[Master Blaster]

In all fairness I have been shooting Glocks since 1999 when I bought a g26 to carry. On my newest, a G41 the overtravel is really about. 0.23 inches.

I still shoot glocks pretty well.

The 1951 Colt Officers .38 has a much better trigger. No overtravel in SA. The DA is very smooth.

 

[David Hoback]

I don’t think it’s 1/2” on a Glock. I’ve never attributed excessive overtravel to an difference in accuracy. Limiting Overtravel adds to a more enjoyable trigger feel. Just as smoothing any grit, etc. These are handguns we are talking about. Not precision rifles. The trigger that lends to extreme accuracy is not something that can safely be tun on a handgun. ESPECIALLY a defensive carry gun. I shudder to think of someone carrying a handgun with a trigger under 1lb!

 

[SwampWolf]

And everything you point out there suggests that your focus is on what the trigger is doing. Instead of evaluating the trigger, try putting the focus on the sights/target and just shoot.

Barring a trigger that is not within factory spec for the gun, all of what is mentioned about triggers above means nothing, if you pay it no mind, and focus on the things that place the round. If you cant do that, the fanciest and most perfect trigger in the world still wont make a bit of difference if you've lost focus on what places the round and instead, put your concentration on what the trigger is doing.

And you still seem to be missing the point. Nobody is saying that you can't shoot well with a mediocre trigger; only that you don't need to, so why handicap yourself unnecessarily? And I don't need lessons about "focus" and shooting well. As a part of my thirty year le history, I've shot in many, many "tactical" events and have competed in Bullseye matches since the early sixties. There are many components to the basics of shooting well with a pistol (or a rifle), including sight-alignment, stance, grip, breath-control, cadence, follow-through and trigger squeeze/pull. All of these components need to be addressed and concentrated on to keep your bullets close together and on the mark.

If I had to pick the most important elements indispensable to shooting well, it would first be proper sight alignment, followed closely by the correct management of the trigger. Precision pistol shooting teaches the basics in "slow-motion" but the lessons learned are applicable in "tactical" shooting formats that are won by the clock and accurate marksmanship. For those who say they can't tell the difference between a typical Glock trigger and a trigger typically found on a 1911 pistol, I would invite them to compete at a Bullseye match at Camp Perry (a venue I've sadly heard no longer is the place for Precision Pistol competition) with a Glock, where in the slow-fire stage, you shoot one-handed at a target fifty yards away, with strong gusts of wind regularly coming off Lake Erie. Triggers matter.

 

[SwampWolf]

The 1951 Colt Officers .38 has a much better trigger. No overtravel in SA. The DA is very smooth.

I have the very same revolver made in the same year. In terms of everything needed for accurate shooting, finish and workmanship, the Colt is every bit the equal of my Smith & Wesson K 38 (Model 14).

 

[Gus Chiggins]

In a weak moment I bought a Glock 44 thinking it would be a good pistol for young shooters starting. It had almost a 9 lb trigger and felt like there was gravel inside it even after several hundred rounds through it. Bought a spring kit and did the polish job they showed and it’s down to about 4 lbs now and is not too bad.

I took my Ruger MK IV .22 and my Glock 44 .22 to the range the other day. I shot the Ruger with the Volquartsen 2.5 lb trigger first then switched to the Glock. It took so much pressure to pull the trigger that I thought it was broken.
After a couple of mags I got used to it again. A nice trigger does spoil you.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Striker fired guns including Glocks have about a half inch of overtravel after they break. It's like your finger plummets over a cliff.

On my striker fired Sig P365, from the tip of the trigger there is about 0.290" of take up to what appears to be the wall. Note that the FCU slides back and forth inside the frame just over 0.010". This is mostly due to the OVAL shaped holes in the FCU that the receiver retaining pin goes through. Every time you fire, the FCU moves forward. When you squeeze the trigger and reach what you think is the wall, the FCU slides rearward about 0.010" and THEN the creep begins. So the total take up is about 0.300". There is about 0.140 of creep from the wall until the sear releases. The over-travel from the release point to the trigger stop it is about 0.050". That's about 0.190" of travel from the wall to the trigger stop.

The trigger lever arm above the trigger pivot is at the top of it's arc when the trigger has been squeezed to the wall. From that point onward the trigger leverage increases slightly as you squeeze the lever further.

I have the stock curved trigger. The amount of travel that my finger perceives at the center of the trigger is about 1/2 of these measurements. The trigger pull force at the center of the trigger is within an ounce of 7 lbs.

I polished every contact point within the trigger linkage and also polished the edge of the striker safety lever that the trigger actuates. For better or worse this is what I have to work with.