Discussion in 'Hunting' started by courtgreene, May 8, 2019.
Ohio’s permission slips says not allowed to sue. Hunt at own risk
This. Maybe it was different long ago but not now.
My wife's family dairy farms. According to my BIL a couple of decades ago a short visit from the insurance rep. meant no strangers invited/allowed on the land for hunting or really anything else sporting. I sense some of you are dismayed that a farm owner would ever say "Hey sure come here and hunt around my animals and machines with high powered rifles, thanks for asking. BTW what'd you say your name was?"
Oh and as for "offering to help out pitching hay or in some other way", are you kidding? Y'all just don't get it. If one of you stripped the gears on a $100,000 tractor, fell out of a hay mow, got your hand caught in a conveyor or just keeled over in the heat and broke a leg the liability insurance wouldn't necessarily be there. Even experienced paid farm helpers have accidents. Basically, my wife's family wouldn't let you on the farm to change a light bulb unless you were an independent contractor with your own ins. coverage or one of the regular farm hands covered by the farm's workman's comp.
So if you find yourself unwelcome on the farm for hunting it might not be because farmers dislike hunters or hunting.
In defense of all the responsible and respectable hunters which out number the irresponsible and disrespectful hunters. There are just as many letchurous land owners.
Well, it is THEIR LAND.
Have experienced plenty from both sides.
Actually, I think the semantics DO matter, and the culprits are purposely reported as "hunters" not "poachers" since the left has an anti-gun agenda, and 99% of "the press" are closet Socialists (imho).
I'm fortunate enough my sils family has land with planted trees that I get to hunt with him or with "a" friend, she doesn't want either of us to hunt solo, she also allows her neighbors son to bow hunt. She teaches school and sometimes the ag classes come to her property so those days we can't hunt. We always give them the first deer for allowing us to hunt. Squirrels, rabbits, deer coyotes anything but quail and turkey are GTG. 180 ac total about 100 pines 60 hardwoods, last year about 40 ac got clearcut at the start of gun season
That clearcut, if managed right could make a great habitat for all the animals you mentioned.
At first I thought they had regulations against hunting with .308's.
I own property and the reason I would never let anyone hunt it is because every tract of land I ever frequented in my younger years, that was not fenced off and posted, was where people took their trash to dump. We had a beautiful spring-fed lake near our house but you could not walk the bank without boots because of the beer bottles and broken glass. It's bad enough dealing with trespassers without actually inviting them in. People are pigs, not just 'some' hunters.
They aren't a trespasser if you invite them in.
Whenever I hear someone go on a long rant about why they don't like hunting and hunters, describing the behavior they don't like,I find myself interceding with, "What you're describing is criminal behavior."
They then make it clear that they don't see the difference or believe it exists.
Strange, how some of those same people have great respect for outdoor survival skills; yet, have no concept that a person dropped alone in the middle of a wilderness is going to have a much better chance of coming out intact, if he has a background in hunting.
They want to view us as overweight fools, killing innocent animals from a truck, while drinking beer, and they really don't want to hear that their image is neither a universal truth,nor remotely fair.
My family outfitted hunts for deer and dove starting in the 1960s and stopped in the 1990s. We have had THOUSANDS OF HUNTERS ON OUR PLACES. Indeed, there are many great people out there who hunt. There are also the Dallas goobers who shot up one of our barns with a fully automatic HK MP-5 during a dove hunt. There are also the "hunters" who tried to shoot over their limit. Then there are the hunters who don't actually want to hunt, they just want to kill stuff and whine because they didn't get a chance to shoot anything. Too bad, I didn't guarantee a kill. Oh, let's not forget the guys who leave their shells everywhere for the cattle to eat. My favorite is the dove hunter who screamed at my sister because he only killed four dove (shot two boxes of shells I was told) in the morning hunt. She cried and his face went into the cattle guard at an alarming velocity. My brother-in-law wasn't into customer service. We don't need those headaches.
Yeah there is a bunch of boneheads. Makes it hard for those of use that go out to be out. Game is a bonus. Never left a casing in the field. Dove and Quail hunt with Ithica that pops them out right at my feet. Never drive off the road unless supplying feeder, needed maintenance or game retrieval.
Last few leases I was on people were trying to tag out multiple licenses, brought in half dozen guests on openning weekend, drunks, road racers, camp fires in burn ban. One, the other guy on it was obstinate if I was lucky enough to get game and drank too much. One place the neighbor land owner raced his 4 wheeler up and down the fence line from 6am-around 9am then 4 till dark. One the owner after he took our money said don't show your ass at my house. A cow got injured, not by us and he gets pissed we didn't tell him. I'm like ***, make up your mind.
A lot more but you get the drift.
Yeah. Why should we, as hunters engaging in lawful pursuits, share the label of "hunter" with litterbugs, vandals, thieves, and other destructive types? If it's about friends/family/neighbors, the behaviors griped about in this thread so far are anathema.
Used to be, folks that owned enough land to be hunted did not have it for hunting. They had it for farming/making a living. While they owned the land, they did not believe they also owned the game on it. Was a given if land wasn't heavily posted, it was open to hunting. Neighbors helped neighbors on deer drives over multiple parcels, and folks split the meat. It was known iffin' you let me hunt yours, you can hunt mine. That changed when deer hunting became a big sport instead of just a way to supplement one's diet and/or feed the family. Once folks started to own land for the primary reason to hunt it, being allowed access to it was over for the most part. Folks now feed, nurture and let deer mature on their property for the sole reason of getting a big rack to put on the wall. They now feel that those deer residing on their land belong to them. Altho they do contribute, there's more to it than just slob hunters and poachers. Kinda like most folks will let you borrow their old chevy mini-van, but odds are they ain't gonna let you drive their 'Vette.
Deer season brings out the worst of all self proclaimed "hunters". Many have not fired a shot or even looked at their gun since the prior season. They hunt in groups and when not arguing among themselves they argue with other groups about who gets to hunt a piece of property that none of them own. Landowners, like myself, get fed up with the drama and
don't allow anyone outside the family to hunt.
Whining family members get 1 chance as well. My favorite is hearing about hurt feelings over something on Facebook, all involved are told not to come back.
Ever notice the self-proclaimed "sportsmen" walking around looking down their noses and talking about what great sportsmen they are? Like, for whatever reason, they're so much better sportsmen than those other sportsmen? Less about being a real deal outdoor type, enjoying pursuits in common, and more about being a narcissist. It's like I said... anathema to family, friends, and neighbors.
A painful amount of truth here. Back in the 60's my grandfather would give permission to anyone to hunt deer for the asking. The numbers of hunters vastly outnumbered the deer. By the late 60's, the deer season had expanded to two weeks, and the average kill had gone up to two per season before that it was a largely social occasion with no real expectation of getting anything. The way my grandfather looked at it if someone shot every deer, rabbit, and squirrel, and caught every fish in the river, maybe then the rest of the family would lose interest, and do a little farm work. My grandfather took no personal interest in hunting. Most of our neighbors were about the same way.
Today, a person can hunt deer with a reasonable expectation of success, and the resource is managed and doled out with considerably more thought. Gone is the day the wild-eyed looking stranger knocks on the door in the dark on the morning of the first day with full expectation of being granted a hunt..
Very true. My neighbor used to lend out his property. Not anymore. I remember looking across my field onto his land with my binoculars and looking back at me was one of those hunters staring at me through his rifle scope. I'd take a smart poacher over an idiot any day.
Another thing he pointed out was that once you let another hunter use your farm, they believe they can come back next year. Then they bring their buddies. Then when you cut them off they get real pissed off. He said he got tired of picking up their beer cans. Turned me off from ever letting anyone use my land. That and this sue happy world.
This is a video I took a couple of years ago. We were hog hunting on a property (2000+ acres) for which we did hog control for landowners. My buddy had a weekend reserved with the landowner where we had full access to the property at night. We are sitting at one end of a very large and recently sprouted wheat field during a windy night, waiting to see if any hogs would come out of the bottoms, when it looked a dust devil had formed. Then we realized what it was. Because I had to disengage the scope from the rifle (only means we had to record), I nearly missed the event. Here is the end of what we were watching on thermal with our handhelds...
Some jerk hunter had driven his dog truck (dog boxes on the back) into the property and was doing donuts in the wheat field. This is about 2 or 3 am and we called the owner. Come to find out later, that was a 'friend of the family' that he had given permission to hunt coyotes on the property during week nights when we weren't hunting hogs. He specifically was not supposed to be there during the weekend. He certainly wasn't supposed to be doing donuts in the fields (we found lots more evidence of donuts in other fields) and scaring the cattle. Had we not gotten video, we very well could have been blamed for the damage.
When I was growing up we found several nice places to deer hunt in the Texas hill country. With just me, my older brother, and my dad, we couldn't afford to lease these places on our own. We would find someone we felt we could trust to go in with us. Every single place we had, one of our "friends" who was hunting with us did one of the specific stupid things the landowner didn't want us to do. And we had only invited them because we trusted them, and needed help paying for our hunting. Well, we all ended up kicked off, and we went several years without deer hunting. and to this day remembering how these people acted, it is very easy for me to understand why landowners don't want anyone on their property.
I roomed with an idiot for about a year. He was a “hunter” that brought home an illegal, out of season hen turkey and wondered why I was pissed off
He had permission to coon hunt a farm. Drove through a mature soybean field to get to a remote patch of woods. “I wasn’t gonna walk all that way. Easier to drive”
I am pretty dismayed with trying to get private land access.
I will make many concessions to a landowner regarding what game I will hunt and what times I will be on the land.
Once, I tried to make a deal with a landowner where I would only be out hunting between Turkey season and the beginning of deer season. Here that is late in May until early October. And I would ONLY take hogs. So, basically hogs only during the hottest time of year when no one else will want to be outside. No dice. This guy was apparently open to allowing hunters on his land too. I don’t get it.
I have tried to negotiate antlerless only deer and only in late season. Small game only and only during times it wasn’t deer season. Once again, these were all folks who at least showed interest in allowing me to hunt initially and a few of those times it was implied there would be a monetary cost for my pleasure. I had liability waivers, permission to hunt forms, short term land lease contracts with provisions for terms and penalties, proof of having my own health insurance in hand so they would understand my level of commitment and interest. Said they would get back with me and ghosted. I can only think they saw my level of enthusiasm for only hog or doe hunting and were working out a way to get a bigger cut....or they figured why would they let me hunt here when they could just start letting the grandson of their good buddy hunt or someone else they knew better. That's life. I can only imagine what would have happened if I inquired about full deer privileges. I would have been laughed straight out of the gate.
I bet I couldn't get access if I was to do nothing but kill snakes and give the skins to the owner as proof.
It’s not a huge deal but is dismaying. I do my deer hunting up north in MI and hogs on public land down here.
In another post I made a comment about how deer hunting in many states and to a further extent elk hunting in those states that have it, has become highly political in my eyes. Restricting the number of resident hunters so they can make big money off of non-residents. In the same way, small time land owners are looking to try to get their piece as well. I pay $200 for non-resident licenses and tags to deer hunt in MI. I drive 16 hours to get there and stay for a week. It is family land so only family hunt it. It is worth it to me. I would pay the same for a place to hunt only hogs down here but so far I have had no takers.
It is common knowledge hunting rights have value and this is where land owners can get weird on you. I have heard of and seen first hand a land owner hold out for more money on a lease and end up with nothing.....and seem to be perfectly happy about that outcome. Madness. It is their land and if they don't get out of it what they think the value is then they will deprive it for pride or spite or....something else. They obviously don't need the money and I guess that could be their way of waving it in your face.
On another note, I know many folks are bitter about not owning their own hunting land and as such get bitter at folks who do own land and restrict access for what appears to be no good reason. Many times I am sure there is a good reason. Sometimes maybe not but if it is someone else’s land they have every right to jealously guard it and call it precious or whatever. The reason I know this is because I am one of them.
My family has owned about 300,000 acres for over 100 years. The stories they can tell about abuses over the last 30 years would raise the hair on the back of your neck. From stupidity to malicious vandalism. They run the gamut. We've had gates left open allowing cattle to get mixed up and taking days to sort out, windmills and solar arrays shot up, cattle and horses run through fences.
Grass which we depend on for a living torn up by people cutting donuts. It goes on ad infinitum.
We still allow some hunting, but it's to a special trusted few. We have never charged anyone a cent for entry. It's a shame as we use to welcome all comers.
Me, as well. It can be very tough.
Yes, it is their land, their rules.
It is their land. They probably didn't buy it for the purpose of having strangers on it.
Landowners get weird? Maybe, but it is THEIR land, but the common knowledge among landowners is that interlopers can be a HUGE problem. It is also common knowledge that there are a lot more people who want access than there are folks willing to grand access.
How much is it worth to the landowner to have yahoos on it? Think of it this way...let's say you have a car you could rent and there are people who would like to rent it Renting it would cause you some inconvenience, but certainly not cripple you. You incur some risks when you rent it as well and it may not be pristine when you get it back. You don't need to rent it, but you would if the price was right. Would you rent if for less than what you think is the right price, or would you just keep it instead? Nothing weird there.
Exactly. There are a lot of butthurt people who feel they should have access to what isn't theirs. There is no other reason needed for exclusion other than if you don't own it, you don't get access to it without owner consent, just like with all of the rest of your other property. Some stranger knocks on your door and asks to let his kids play in your back yard, asks if he can borrow your car, use your bathroom, probably ain't none of that going to happen, right? Yet so many people think they should have access to somebody elses land that they have no right to at all, except by the grace of the landowner, who paid for the land and has all the risks associated with having the land.
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