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Everyone go buy a .17 HM2, not a HMR

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by SureThing, Jun 1, 2009.

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  1. SureThing

    SureThing Member

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    I hate the thought of owning a "speciality round" gun. After researching, I found out the .17 HM2 exists, and cost about $4 per 50, instead of the $11 the HMR costs.

    So now I want one. Not sure why the HM2 has not taken off, especially since the savings is about 70%, I just don't think people realize it exists, and just get a .22LR instead.

    So I now urge everyone to go buy them, so I will know that I can always get ammo :)

    One last question

    Savage or Marlin for my Mach 2 gun?
     
  2. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    I like the CZ 452 American.

    I'm not sure I want everyone buying them. That's happening with all of the other rounds right now and causing supply/demand issues and price increases.

    I keep thinking of buying $1,000 worth of HM2 and getting a lifetime supply now.
     
  3. Kingcreek

    Kingcreek Member

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    I wanted Browning to make me a 10.5" .17 barrel for my Buckmark Silhouette but they weren't interested. I thought it would make the perfect gopher gun.:(
     
  4. Matrix187

    Matrix187 Member

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    I want an HM2. Do you think it will survive long term? I'm thinking about keeping or selling my 17 hmr savage classic T and replacing it with an Hm2.
     
  5. 627PCFan

    627PCFan Member

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    The Mach 2 is going the way of the 5mm. Sorry---
     
  6. SureThing

    SureThing Member

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    That is a shame, the .17 HM2 is better than a .22LR, and almost as cheap. Lets all go buy some, keep it in business.
     
  7. EHCRain10

    EHCRain10 Member

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    the HMR has the added range that I want, and can push 20grain pills while I havent seen those on the HM2
     
  8. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    wrong-o , wrong-0!!!! the mach 2 will overtake the hmr. It'll just take a while. Why? because the hmr is not considered a plinking round, to shoot 100's of rounds at a time with. Because a lot of the loads, and the rifles, are not that accurate. Why? because no one has come out with great specs on the perfect making, putting together, crimping, runnout of the hmr ammo. Why? becuase they are making a lot of money on them just the way they are, at 15 bucks a box, and just having them being used as a hunting accurate round. it is the same as 22mag to load, but they can get more money. so the mach 2 is better. Why? because it is a genuine laser shot out to 125 yards, with a 5 inch drop at 150. ELey and remmy ammo, which is about 100 fps faster, does a bit better, and is also generally more accurate, being both are eley made. Big John, of ammunitiontogo.com, personally told me that there is right now, about 30 million m2 rounds in the pipeline, going here and to diff countries for sale. Supposedly the owner of Anschutz, carries a target around with him, that he shot with the m2, and is allways preaching the gospel of Mach 2. Of course mach 2 ammo is 4 to 6 bucks a box, and over the net, can be even cheaper. Accuracy is better than all but the super best of 22lr, and is faster at 100 yds, than a 22lr is at the muzzle, so varmints tend to get real sick, real fast.
    Also talk about no recoil, it is the funnest thing you will ever shoot; most guys I know started with several hmrs, and then bought a m2- now they have many m2's, and keep MAYBE ONE hmr, or none at all. for game/pelt/meat keeping , the m2 is better, not so explosive. m2 ammo and rifles, now had by dudes who once had 17 hmrs, will tell you that generally speaking , the mach 2 is more accurate; the round and the rifles. Also if you really wanna save skins, try shooting 17 aguila through your m2; it may or may not be as accurate as your m2 ammo, but it is generally hunting accurate. It is loaded
    on a true 22 lr round, the m2 is loaded on a stinger round. so the aggie rounds is about 1900 to 2000 fps, just a bit slower, but uses a 20 grainer, that is either hollow point or solid. so it can drill teeny , tiny , entrance and exit holes, the little hollowpoints simply disentegrate inside your varmint.
    I gotta tell you, I love them all; I have had every rifle made, under 500 bucks, and there wasn't a dud in the bunch. for a hunting rig, I would go with a savage base model, synth stock , with a pencil bbl; superaccurate, and super light, just not a benchrester model; it will eventually heat up that
    pencil bbl. The base marlin, is double tough to beat, for 200 bucks or less, every one I have ever touched, with just a few tweeks to the channel of the stock and the trigger, can be great shooters. the cz is great, as is,out of the box, the ruger variants are great; they are all great! go on over to rimfirecentral, and find skeeter and a couple of the other dudes with massive 10.22 conversion experience, and they will make you 10.22 shoot unbelievably accurate, with the once- 22.
    I can't extole the virtues enough, I love them. Currently , I am still looking for the above savage, for a field rifle, but my bench go to is a ruger 77/17m2, stainless laminate, with trigger mods, channelled out stock, and a fakey bbl to stock bedding job. it shoots absolutely lights out, and is heavy enough to free recoil the pull on the trigger, and when it fires, it barely moves.

    Oh yeah, in case you didn't notice, 5mm mag ammo is being made, and sold again, and if savage or cz ever gets around to making a new bolt action for it, this would be the greatest rimfire ever. Just imagine, a 204 ruger round, between 30 and 35 grains, handloaded down to about 2500 fps, but in a rimfire tiny case, Awesome!!! centurion ammo is allready worked up the hotter and heavier loads, in case savage or cz does come through.
    the reason the hmr took off, but the m2 did not, is purely marketing. The m2 actually came out first; not even so, but the `17 high Standard, which is the 17 Aguila , came out first.
    when the hmr's were first being expiremented with, and some of the early folks were doing tests to
    3000fps, this got a lot of people in the rimfire world, really revved up. So when it did come out, the hmr sold like a house a fire; mach 2 is expanding one way only. Word of mouth.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  9. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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  10. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    even the nef and rossi single shots, can be quite accurate.
     
  11. hutner22

    hutner22 Member

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    I got a 22LR and i love it:) she is my baby I use it for hunting rabbits but i want some thing bigger for coyotes.
     
  12. SureThing

    SureThing Member

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    Ranger, are you saying you like the Marlin better than the Savage? Also, it does not appear Marlin makes a 17HM2, just a HMR.
     
  13. TechBrute

    TechBrute Member

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    I can't believe I'm opening this can of worms, but:

    Ok, so why is the Mach 2 better than .22LR?
     
  14. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm glad you asked that, TechBrute! :D:D:D

    I went prairie dog shooting with Justin. He was just getting acquainted with his .17 M2. He was zapping them nicely at 100 yards, and after getting a feel for the wind and hold-over, was getting clean kills at 200. A buddy was using his laser range finder and calling the distances for us.

    I really don't think the .22 rimfire would perform that well.
     
  15. TechBrute

    TechBrute Member

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    Interesting.

    I personally wouldn't compare the two because the .17hm2 costs 2-4 times as much for ammo. By that logic, we should compare the .17hm2 to .17hmr or .223, which are within 2-4 times the cost of the .17hm2. That's not to say the 17hm2 is without merit, I just don't think it's a fair comparison.

    As a plinking ammo, I think it's hard to beat the trusty .22LR which can still be had for $.02 a round. Even at stupid Obama prices, it capped out around $.03 a round. For people that don't want to do the math, the .17hm2 is around .08 a round.

    Some people might not think that's a big deal, but for the aforementioned $1000 purchase, you can get 12,500 rounds of .17hm2, or you can get 50,000 rounds of .22lr.

    By the way, neither is a lifetime supply... I used to do 1-2000 rounds a month through my Mark II pistol. Based on sales reciepts and some other considerations, I believe my Mark II has north of 200K rounds through it. If that was hm2, that would be around $16,000 in ammo.

    Again, I'm not saying the .17hm2 is without merit, I just question the criteria for comparison.
     
  16. t george

    t george Member

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    I love my 22's but my 17m2 gets a lot more time these days. I still work the 22's out some but if there is a question of small game at a distance I always grab the mach 2... Im just much more confident with it.


    I hope it survives because it really is a great round. but with the amount of 22 firearms out there compared number 17m2's there will always be a market for 22lr. with that it maybe hard for the 17m2's market to keep growing.
     
  17. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    I don't consider the HM2 a plinking round. I shoot a ton of .22 bulk ammo through semi autos too, but my hm2 gun is a bolt gun that holds 5 rounds in the mag. I know they make semis in HM2, but if I want to shoot cans I'll break out a .22.

    12,000 rounds would take me a really, really long time to go through in HM2. Maybe not a lifetime . . . mine probably gets 50 rounds a month through it, so I could shoot it for 20 years or so.

    The thing about HM2 is there isn't a cheap plinking version of the ammo. It all seems to be "match grade." While this isn't necessarily for a lot of shooting, it is comparable to match grade .22 ammo, which costs more than the bulk stuff. HM2 still costs more than most .22, for sure.

    I rationalize it as a nice round between .22LR and .223.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  18. SureThing

    SureThing Member

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    [​IMG]

    Look at the chart.
     
  19. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Any info to back this up...I think it will be around for a while. I almost bought a HMR a couple of years ago...but that was when ammo was almost as much as .223/5.56...I wish I had now...the rifle (Savage) was only about $150.00 @ Dicks.
     
  20. KzoneAL

    KzoneAL Member

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    The M2 isnt going anywhere CCI,Hornady and Eley have no plans on dropping it. There is a ton of info over on www.rimfirecentral.com in the 17M2 Forum that should answer any questions.Anyone who hunts small game with a rimfire needs to seriously give the M2 a try...it is a laser beam to 100yds and strikes like lightning.
     
  21. hunter25

    hunter25 Member

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    Already bought a Sako HMR and the 22lr takes care of al my plinking needs. I'm happy with it.
     
  22. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    well, here is the ting about the mach 2 , it is as fast as a 22lr is at 100 yds. it has basically half the trajectory arc, and half the wind deflection of the 22lr.
    there is basically no good 22lr ammo, under 2 bucks a box anymore, most of it is 3 to 4 bucks a box. eley mach 2 ammo is 4 bucks a box. you can also shoot 17aguila/pmc/high standard ammo through a mach 2 rifle. it is generally allways more accurate, than a standard, average 22 rifle, shooting average or even pretty good 22 lr ammo. the chart above lists the speed and trajectory of
    cci or hornady ammo, but does not account for eley/remmy ammo, which again, is about 100 fps faster; sometimes depending on the rifle, dudes are getting about 2300 fps with the mach 2 ammo, which would give you even better b.c., trajectory, and wind drift characteristics than a 22lr.
    To follow up on something Art has just said, I run into many new folks all the time at the range. Most new folks cannot shoot anything at all, barely well.
    they are there just to learn a firearm for protection, or a shotty, but never a rifle. Oh they shot rifles before, even 22's, but were never that good with them, never very accurate, had trouble relating how to shoot for wind, and drop and such, especially with iron sights, even out to just 50 yds.
    So I will regularly, get some of these folks to my left and right, and then we go downrange. They look at their target, that they sprayed with a 223 ar of sometype, or maybe a semi 22, and then they look at my target, which
    usually has pencil hole sized groups on it.
    When we get back up to the front, they no doubt start to ask me, " what laser am i shooting?" So I preach the gospel of m2, and how it is so simple to shoot, and making corrections just takes tiny movements, if any at all, just better trigger or body positioning tweeks, and then I say, " Gahead, if you dare, shoot mine!"
    It is my ton heavy ruger 77/17m2, that has a 1lb type or less trigger pull, and has no recoil. Not to mention it has a 24x scope on it.
    So they shoot mine, and invariably ask, " where can I buy one of those?"
    and of course the peeps who do shoot it ,start immediately bragging to one
    another how good they can now shoot with my rig. makes me happy.
    You should be able to find a marlin 917m2, in basic wood and blue, at any of the big box stores, gunshops, gunshows, etc. Marlin no longer makes the m2 rifle, but they flooded the market with them, in both plain , and stainless lam, so you should be able to find one from them , or savage, or ruger, or cz, or t/c, or annie, or kimber. the t/c semi auto, is a dream. volquarts also makes them, but cost a ton. and of course, you could take a ruger 10.22 and convert.
    Really, once you shoot one of these, even you 22lr loving ol timers, who will never shoot anything else, etc., etc., once you shoot one of these, like I ,
    you will find yourself rarely taking your 22 to the range any more.
    Just so infinitely much better.

    Oh yeah, if you find a marlin semi auto 717, get it, very underrated, and super accurate, but have a history of blowing up. you just need to make sure you hand break in first, with an empty case, then some borepaste or toothpaste, and then keep the chamber area/bolt face clean, after about every 100 rounds. Doesn't need a thorough cleaning, just swab the crud out, maybe spray out, then wipe out, then keep going. the action is just like a mod 60, only with twice as thick all steel parts, and much heavier.

    Hunter 25, if that is a Sako Quad, I dare you to get the m2 bbl! " come on, come in, no no no, this
    is love, this is real looove, not like those others before, come on open the door!!! We would never hurt you like before; come on in!!!" an homage to Sam Kinison...

    one more thing about that chart above, notice the hmr 20 grainer is about 2375 to 2400 fps, well
    the eley/remmy ammo is about 2300 fps, so the trajectory would be much closer to that, in a case
    about 1/2 the size, 1/2 the recoil, and 1/4 the cost.

    NOW FOR COST, COST, COST!!!! WHICH IS EVERYTHING THESE DAYS!!!!
    for a case of 2000 rounds of eley ammo, the cost is 140 bucks, plus shipping. from ammunitiontogo.com some places, even has it and the remmy at about 3.60 a box, I don't know about
    shipping costs or tax though. still lets say, 150 bucks total for 2000 rounds. that is 15 bucks for 200 rounds, that is bascially 37.50 for a brick of 500. most any good ammo in 22lr, is that same cost, or to break it down further, 3.75 cents for a box of 50. So you cannot say, that 22 ammo is a lot cheaper, or this is not plink worthy.

    So there!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2009
  23. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Sure I can, I pay about $13.00/500 of .22lr. I can't say it is as accurate (on average), or that 17M2 is not "plink-worthy", but I can certainly say it is cheaper...and do it with less words. :neener:

    What does it take to convert a 10/22 to .17Mach2? Are they reliable? May be interested in doing just that after I get a new .22lr.
     
  24. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    not much; there of course is diff quality in the parts, and some work better than others. Skeeter and a few others really have the science down though, and can help you make a really great, super accurate 10.22, over on rimfirecentral.
    Basically , you need a new bbl, a new guide rod spring, new hammer, new weighted bolt assy., and bolt handle. All due to the much longer, and higher pressure spike.
     
  25. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    A few friends got rifles chambered in mach 2. Much better than 22LR. Since i already have a GSG-5 rifle and 93R17 BTVS, no need for hm2.

    Anyone know what would happen if mach2 rounds were fired in HMR rifles? Basically the same bullet?? except the case rim is slightly smaller.
     
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