Ex-husband with body armors kills 2 women in shoot-out

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Aim1

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Just goes to show you how a restraining order won't stop a violent person.

Sadly, these women did the right thing and armed themselves each with a pistol and shot the suspect.

He must have known they were armed because he came with body armor on and a shotgun. Tragic.




http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/238071206-story


Man kills estranged wife, wife's girlfriend before committing suicide

UPDATED:FEB 26 2017 08:31AM EST

BRANDON (FOX 13) - Detectives say a husband killed his estranged wife and his wife's girlfriend before turning the gun on himself Friday morning.

On the day of the attack, deputies say women both had firearms, which they bought because they were scared of Vicente. They returned fire when Vicente shot at them with a shotgun, but they were unable to debilitate him. After Vicente killed the women, detectives say he turned the gun on himself.
 
I tell everyone that a restraining order is just a paper trail. It is documentation for police to see "Yup, this person is a problem." It does very little good any other way. I am trying to teach a friend of mine how to purchase and use firearms to defend herself against an on again/off again abusive boyfriend. I haven't been successful as yet but I did give her my pepper spray as a start.
 
I tell everyone that a restraining order is just a paper trail. It is documentation for police to see "Yup, this person is a problem." It does very little good any other way. I am trying to teach a friend of mine how to purchase and use firearms to defend herself against an on again/off again abusive boyfriend. I haven't been successful as yet but I did give her my pepper spray as a start.


I have yet to see a restraining order stop a bullet or a knife.
 
That's why CA, and maybe other states, are wanting to disarm people that have restraining orders against them. At least thats the logic they give


And not that it would have likely made a difference either way,,,,, but the article said the restraining order wasn't current.
 
Very sad.

Definitely helps make the case for rifles as a practical home defense weapon. Bad guys wearing body armor is still the exception and not the rule, but is becoming prevalent enough to consider the possibility less remote. It's not just armor penetration; more accurate fire and a greater volume of it improves your odds even if the armor will stop the rounds.
 
Headshots can be hard even for trained people in situations like this.

And they'd have had to had a ton of training.

They were prepared but the suspect was prepared more with body armor and a shotgun. Hard to stop that guy.
Say they were well trained and their marksmanship and mindset was good enough for a headshot, I can imagine they didn't realize he was wearing body armor so they still aimed for COM because that's what we are trained to do.

Which raises the question, if G-d forbid a person is in a situation where it CAN be seen that the assailant is wearing body armor should the tactic switch to attempting a headshot?
 
That's why CA, and maybe other states, are wanting to disarm people that have restraining orders against them. At least thats the logic they give

And not that it would have likely made a difference either way,,,,, but the article said the restraining order wasn't current.

Prohibiting a person subject to a restraining order from owning a gun only prevents them from owning a legally-acquired gun, but even without a gun they can still attack their victim, that woman in NJ whose permit was held up by the bureaucracy was killed by her ex with a knife.
 
Groin, hips, head and all vests have edges. Point was made earlier that accuracy and volume of fire might be more important than some want to acknowledge.
 
Prohibiting a person subject to a restraining order from owning a gun only prevents them from owning a legally-acquired gun, but even without a gun they can still attack their victim, that woman in NJ whose permit was held up by the bureaucracy was killed by her ex with a knife.


Agreed.

A restraining order is the metaphorical definition of a paper tiger.
 
After a career in police work (all the way up to senior lieutenant on a 100 man force)... I saw more than one murder/suicide in a domestic situation. The truth is that restraining orders do work much of the time (and with a restraining order in place if officers are called out and the subject is still on the scene... he or she can be taken into custody -if for nothing else... violation of a restraining order). Nothing, though, can prevent a violent individual intent on murder suicide other than a very lethal defense or the simple re-locating of the intended victim...

None of this is ideal. Most of the time the intended victim isn't willing to do all that's possible to prevent this kind of thing (and yes, simply re-locating works just fine -unless you're writing a script for popular entertainment where every bad guy is an absolute genius at finding that intended victim...). You never hear about all the domestic violence cases where restraining orders work just fine, by the way... The only domestic violence cases you hear about are the few that do result in tragedies...

Yes, a very capable self defense on the part of the intended victim may be the last resort. A thorough, in depth plan on how to deal with an angry former partner at your door with a gun is a very good idea if they know where you live... On more than one occasion I've advised folks in that position to inform their neighbors and/or co-workers of the possible problem, asking them to call it in if they ever see the offender on or near their house (or place of work - the second most popular place for an angry ex-partner to find them....). None of this is ideal - in my city we routinely notified officers each day of places/situations where known domestic violence problems were located. We encouraged our cops to check in daily with serious problem spots (before a complaint was called in if it was an on-going problem...). None of the stuff I've cited above is fool-proof, though... In the end each of us is responsible for our own self-defense in the extreme...
 
Yes, restraining orders fail some times. I would not depend on one so much as to advise going about unarmed.

But if a loved one is threatened, putting one in place ramps up the consequences quickly for anyone violating them.

Finally, a self-defense shooting where the evidence may be ambiguous without a restraining order has a rock solid defense if an active restraining order is in place. A restraining order won't help win the lethal force encounter, but it WILL help win the legal aftermath.

It is not quite permission to "shoot the **** if he shows up" but it is about as close as you are gonna get.
 
This story has a bit more information. There is video of him breaking into the home where a fairly intense gunfight took place. He was actually wounded several times.
Vincente Fuillerat had multiple wounds, too, but none were fatal. One bullet pierced his vest.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...randon-apparent-double-murder-suicide/2314505

Note to self: close distance, head shots. Joe

Distances were inside the room distances, which are already pretty close. How close do you want to get, keeping in mind that the closer you get increases your danger level.
 
Yes, a very capable self defense on the part of the intended victim may be the last resort. A thorough, in depth plan on how to deal with an angry former partner at your door with a gun is a very good idea if they know where you live... On more than one occasion I've advised folks in that position to inform their neighbors and/or co-workers of the possible problem, asking them to call it in if they ever see the offender on or near their house (or place of work - the second most popular place for an angry ex-partner to find them....).

This is excellent advice. A multilayered defense plan is often the best approach.
 
Groin, hips, head and all vests have edges. Point was made earlier that accuracy and volume of fire might be more important than some want to acknowledge.

Good points, X-Rap. Often these areas are easier targets than a head shot, for example.

Tragic event, to be sure.
 
Hip shots can be very painful and distracting. So are shoulder shots where you hit the joints.
 
Doesn't say what the ladies were shooting or how many shots were fired. I wonder if they shot one or both dry?
 
This story has a bit more information. There is video of him breaking into the home where a fairly intense gunfight took place. He was actually wounded several times.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...randon-apparent-double-murder-suicide/2314505

Thanks for finding that article. I see the murderer broke in through a sliding glass door. Besides having a stick-type barrier to being opened in addition to a deadbolt, I think every sliding glass door should have the 3M security film applied. Then BGs can swing patio furniture or whatever at it and it won't break. (I was going to apply it to some of my windows here but I have the old-fashioned kind with individual panes of glass each surrounded by wood, my handyman said a BG could easily break the wood so it wouldn't be worth it. Still, doors are the point of entry in 85% of breakins and happily I have steel security doors on all mine, so...)
 
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