exploring a first hunting rifle for my son

Polar Express

Polar Express

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
319
Location
Idaho
Hey all, been a while since I posted here, but always know I can come here for kind and respectful conversation, debate and some pretty good suggestions. I appreciate that. Thank you all for keeping that spirit here.

I'm strongly considering a 'first' hunting rifle for my son. He's 21. Just got hired as a LEO (yikes) in a small local town. Very proud of him though. We moved to Idaho 2.5 years ago, and it's a very different world than where we came from. He has expressed interest in hunting, and I think I want to start him out right. The budget is modest, but... I don't mind saving up and buying quality. On one hand, I do like how prevalent the Remington 700 platform is. I've been told, that if I want to go that route, stay away from Remington, (low quality) and go for a clone.
I've assembled and built a handful of various AR platforms and have the tools to build just about anything. I'm actually considering a full build sourced from Brownells and Midway, with the R700 platform clones. But, that may also be rather foolish. So... I'm here looking for input. I'm still VERY early in this process, and I'm open to suggestions, including caliber selection.

Caliber considerations:
As this is intended as a hunting rifle, the potential quarry is important. At moderate distances, Elk and black bear is just fine with a 308, 7mm-08, .270, and even 6.5CM (I know some folks consider that a reach). Deer/pronghorn/cat/wolf/coyote are fine down to .243.

308 is plentiful and (comparatively) cheap. One can practice with mil-surp ammo, and dial it in with better stuff. Gobs of bullet weights and profiles are available. Every ma and pa hardware store in America has 308 on the shelf. But, has he's a newer shooter, I can see the benefits of a lower recoil to build solid fundamentals with, which is where the 6.5CM might excel, and 6.5 has gotten kinda popular since 10 years ago.



Platform:
If Remington is currently junk, but I want to go with the 700 platform, I can walk out of a LGS with a basic Bergara for $1K. Question is... how important is that? If I go with a 700 clone, he has options out the kazoo for upgrades or mods - to suit his preferences. I can't buy the parts to build one for that $1K figure- but it would be nicer, and frankly, potentially have more meaning is it was 'built, not bought', but for what about what I'd spend on the build, it looks like I could get him a modest Seekins.

Savage is about half that price of the Bergara, and they shoot pretty dang straight. On my savages, the bolts flop all over when open, but still lock up plenty tight. Its only an issue because I find it annoying.
There are plenty of other brands and models to choose from. Tikka is similar to the Bergara for price. I've been out of touch for so long on these classes of guns, I don't really have any idea who is making decent stuff or not these days.


Glass and mounts:
It's a given that glass and proper mounts are extremely important, and arguably more important than the gun they sit on. I'm aware of this, so whatever I go for with the gun, I won't skimp on the glass.

Really looking for some suggestions and opinions, even better if you are willing to share 'why' you have the opinion you have. It'll help me evaluate what's important, and which way to go.

Thanks all,
PE
 
You say ‘Savages’ in your post. Why not just give him one of yours? Would probably mean more to get one of dad’s guns vs. a store bought one.

Besides, he’s either going to take to hunting or he’s not. If he doesn’t you’re out of no money. If he does….there’s not a guy I know who hunts the range of game you mentioned with just one gun. He will be on his way as a ‘collector’ at that point.

I think you’re spot on with the .308. My only input to your questions beyond agreeing with the caliber is this….I’ve hiked a little around Idaho and they have some seriously challenging vertical terrain there. For sure I’d want something on the lighter side if I’m on foot in that country.
 
Given that you want a 700 footprint. Then the Bergara B14 in 7mm08 would be a good option. Shorter LOP than most at 12.25” with 1/4” spacers they can adjust to the shooter. It’s a 20” rifle and comes threaded, there’s a lot going for it for people who want a 700 action.

I think either a 7mm08 or 308 Win is a great option for a first rifle to hunt with. Lots of great factory ammo and plentiful loads. I would err towards 7mm08 but I’m a 7mm junkie.

www.sportsmans.com

Bergara B14 Stoke 7mm-08 Remington Graphite Black Cerakote Bolt Action Rifle - 20in

Bergara B14 Stoke 7mm-08 Remington Graphite Black Cerakote Bolt Action Rifle - 20in - We believe in the simple equation: Proper fit equals better accuracy. The Stoke is meticulously crafted for smaller-statured shooters who understand the critical link between comfort and performance. Setting...
www.sportsmans.com www.sportsmans.com
 
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@Polar Express I think that .308 is a good cartridge to start with. I’m a confirmed 6.5 junkie but I won’t knock someone else’s choice, especially when it’s as solid as .308. There are more options out there in this day and age than ever before. If I were in your shoes I’d look strongly at a tikka T3X in .308. They are becoming more and more popular/mainstream. As far as glass is concerned I like Leupold but that’s just me. Please let us know what you decide and remember looking is Half the Fun!
 
In 2025, buying a rifle for my son which I would hope to become a "lifetime rifle" for him, I would not buy anything which did not accept shouldered prefit barrels, and I'd source a spare bolt head or bolt.

The new Seekins PH3 checks a LOT of boxes for what I would want in a lifetime hunting rifle - they've had issues with supporting their Havak line since inception, but I do think some of the info I'm seeing in the new PH3 announcements looks like they eliminated some of the problem areas where the PH2's were struggling with QC/QA. If a guy is willing to take a small risk of ordering the rifle then rejecting if the bolt doesn't feel right, and letting Glen send them another one to get it right (and I DO think the new PH3 will have less issues than the PH2), then a PH3 would do everything you're wanting except be a true R700 footprint. If he started now with a 308win or 6.5 creed, but wanted to keep a magnum bolt face on hand with a 300 WSM or 6.5 PRC barrel in the corner of the safe, he could change between them in a matter of about 5minutes and completely change the power factor of his rifle.
 
I‘ll recommended a Tikka T3x also.
Right around $700, very accurate, smooooth bolt that locks when on safe, and just plain work.
.308 is a great calIber, and as stated, can be found most anywhere, and at any time.
This is a good place to start in my opinion
 
308, 7-08 or 6.5CM are sensible choices. A strong argument can be made that 7-08 is the best of the 3, but unless you handload ammo is harder to find and more expensive. I think the 308 gives a SLIGHT edge on bigger game such as elk or bear but the 6.5CM is still acceptable. And it's a better target round if he wants to have a dual-purpose rifle for hunting and going long at the range.

I used Remington 700's for most of my hunting career, but I'm done with them and can't recommend them for a variety of reasons. At around $700-$800 I'd go with a Tikka. For closer to $500 I like the Gen-II Ruger's. I really like the CRF actions on Winchester, but only with an aftermarket stock and some other tweaking. The finished rifle is going to be closer to $2000 to get a Winchester set up the way I like them.
 
I've read through all the posts so far, Thank you! I appreciate the feedback, mostly because it lets me know I'm not 'off base' with some of my logic. I'll post up some more direct replies when I have a little more time.
PE
 
Some questions to consider:
Brown/Grizzys in the area?
Elk hunting a possibility?
Possibility of it being used as a 'patrol' rifle?
This is not uncommon in more rural areas in the West, to have a longer range option available.
(Possible uses there include putting down injured car-sruck animals, nuisance bears, and anti personnel duties such as counter sniper and hostage situations.)

6.5 Creedmoor would be the absolute minimum I would suggest if any of the above are a "yes". My personal preference would be a Magnum level .30 such as .300 Win. Mag., .300 PRC, etc.
.308 would be a good choice also, and has the advantages you already mentioned.

New, I would choose a Bergara over a Remington 700 any day. If a 700 that had been properly prepared by someone who knows what they were doing were available, that would be a good option.

Breechface and Varminterror make some very good points. The Seekins would be considerable initial outlay, but it would be a lifetime investment, and particularly if it were to be used as an LE tool, a wise one.
 
I like Tikka rifles, they are pretty nice. Older Remington, I’m a Winchester Featherweight fan.
308 is an excellent choice, I wouldn’t go lighter in caliber. My favorites are 30-06, 358 Winchester, 35 Whelen. Personally I’ve gotten over the magnum fever years ago. Stay away from boutique cartridges like WSM and the like stick with tried but true stuff.
308 with 180’s is pretty stout and a lighter bullet in the 130 to 150 range for lighter game.
 
I recommend you pick your cartridge first, then look for an appropriate launcher. Since your son is an adult and you're thinking about a lifetime rifle, the cartridge will depend on the desired game and distance. My go-to hunting rifle is a 7mm-08 but I hunt in the east where shots are rarely over 200 yards and the largest game I'm likely to hunt is whitetail, though the 7mm-08 would be fine if I chose to hunt black bear. I hunted with a .308 for many years but got out of .30 calibers altogether several years ago ... and don't miss them. If I lived in Idaho, I'd stick with a 7mm but opt for either a .280 Ackley Improved or a 7mm PRC for their extended downrange energy and because I don't care for the belt on the 7mm Remington Magnum.

With regard to rifles, I'm a long-time Remington fan and have more rifles based on 700 or Model 7 actions than any other. But I'd not recommend them to others. I like Bergara, especially those with the Premier action. In my opinion, Bergara now builds what an up-to-date Remington ought to be. Although I don't see a .280 AI in their current lineup.
 
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So many wonderful points to consider, thank you.

He's 21, so he's as tall as he's gonna get. I won't need to consider a stock that can be extended. If I decide to build from parts... I was going to go with the Magpul Hunter for the stock.

With regards to the use on duty?
In short, no. But not an unreasonable consideration. There are black bears, elk, deer, pronghorn, and smaller critters around here for sure. No Grizzlys where he's working... yet. For discharging wounded animals, IMO, the 12Ga is most appropriate of what he could carry, and we got him a A300 patrol for his graduation. His dept does not issue shottys, but is sounds like they may fund him attending some 3rd party classes, and once qualified, he may be able to carry that tool. He will be issued a 5.56 SBR at some point (he's just started). IMO, as an LEO, he (all) should have tools available for the roles they may be presented with. He seems likely to stick with this dept as it grows, based on what he's liking. Asking a bolt gun set up for hunting to function as a DMR seems foolish- to me. If it seems like he needs that, and they don't provide one, he can take my AR10 any time he wants, until we build one up for him to his specs. But he's got a lot of training and learning to do before he gets to that bridge.

With regards to passing him one of mine...
I actually love that idea... but... I have two sons, very close in age, with similar interests... and I only have one 308, and it's not an heirloom by any stretch. Which, is why I'm looking to procure one for this purpose. This is also why I'm considering the 'build' option, so while it would be new, there would be a personal aspect to the gun. [We already did this with the AR platform for both our sons - they got parts and pieces each year, and when they turned 18, they got the lower receiver, and we went into the garage and put it together... together. Actually really happy with how that plan worked. As those are also a modular platform, they can change, and modify as they desire, which they are. it's been super fun.] I've spoken to my younger son (20) and he's shared that it seemed very special to him that we built the ARs, and feels that building, or a dad-built one would provide a deeper meaning to the gift. I think I'm getting my answer...

to the idea of selecting the cartridge...
I'm basically there, it's going to be a 308-based cartridge. Years ago, I did some cartridge 'consolidation', for the reasons that KnightHawk mentioned. Getting away from "boutique" stuff. But that 'boutique' term is somewhat debatable. While 6.5CM is the 'new guy', I do think it's safe to say it's mainstream..... now. Even though 7mm-08 is older, I just don't see much of it on the shelves. But I don't doubt the effectiveness or the 'pros' of the 7mm size. Similar to what JMR40 posted; the 7mm-08 MAY be the 'best'- ballistically speaking, for this purpose, but I don't reload... yet. And has he builds his life, he can select where he goes from the foundation. I'm leaning strongly to the actual 308, for the breadth of loads and flexibility. And, what the terrain is in this state, that 308 is a responsible cartridge for Elk and smaller. And if I'm going to step away from .308, it'll be the 6.5CM. If we're going to give up the bullet mass, and massive availability, I want the lighter recoil - for practice sake.



To address the comments about letting him buy what he learns he wants...
I'm figuring that would be for his future rifles. My intention here, is to gift him a foundation. A solid rifle, and a quality glass. My two hunting rifles are both Savages... a 308 & 300WM. Aside from what must be different to accommodate the different calibers, they are identical.

Some of you may be wondering how I don't have that many bolt guns at 50, while talking about hunting, so here's the answer: I haven't hunted in decades. Sports, school, work, then parenting, and then kid's sports, school and we are all finally at a point where it's something we can do... and learn together. I have sooooo much to learn.

Thanks all for what you've put forth, you've really helped me think this through. Please continue, and I promise to update with our decision.

PE
 
Actually I was suggesting a DMR rifle you could hunt with, but since that probably isn't an option, a Bergara in .308, 7mm-08, 7mm PRC, or .300 PRC would be my recommendation.
 
Polar Express said:
My intention here, is to gift him a foundation. A solid rifle, and a quality glass. My two hunting rifles are both Savages... a 308 & 300WM. Aside from what must be different to accommodate the different calibers, they are identical.
Click to expand...

If this is really what it comes down to; beggars shouldn't be choosers and a basic option doesn't rob you of developing tastes over time. We all have experience here and keeping a .308 in the safe even just for our own general use is something everyone here wouldn't disagree on. I say if you're giving him a foundation to start on, the most general of choices should be the .308; anything else is building on a preference we're not sure he has yet. But even seasoned shooters go back to .308 now and again. It's not the wrong choice
 
I don't know the market in your area, but were it me, I'd look for an older Rem 700, say from mid 80's back. I feel their quality was still good then. Even a cheapie Sportsman 78 had a glass smooth action. I made it into a nice 260 AI. I'd guess 308 and 3006 are available, maybe not so much for the newer cartridges. OTOH, a 700 I bought in about 2005, used but recently purchased by the original owner was not nearly as nice or as smooth as earlier guns.

If you're open to doing a build, an older 700 action would be a good base to start with, albeit not cheap anymore.

Just my $0.02... -West out
 
Polar Express - like HowardC said, an older 700 would be a good start. I got a used one (a .243) in the late '80s that the seller claimed had less than 2 boxes of ammo put through it. In testing Remington, Federal, and Winchester 100 gr. factory loads, it didn't perform too well as I was setting the scope (a 3-9x Simmons) for a 200 yd. zero. A co-worker was a benchrest shooter and gave TONS of info and I ended up making my own reloads. Using 100 gr. Sierra PSPs and shooting singles on sandbags (sight picture changed with every shot), I placed 6 shots in 1.5" wide by 2.25" vertical string that, unfortunately, opened up to 2.25" wide due to a single "flyer".
While I think a .243 is too small for anything larger than a whitetail deer, this can give you an idea of the performance that is possible. Considering the advancements in both firearms and ammo over the last 35 years, your biggest concern will be "cost" and "recoil", especially for a newer shooter.
Good luck to you and your son !!
 
I have a Tikka in 7-08 and really like it. I would not be afraid of a Remington 700. The new ones seem good to e. I have owned several in various years and all have had excellent accuracy and always worked. Gun boards tend to be very biased. In any case, I vote Tikka.
 
Few years back when I was in the same spot you are i got a Browning X-Bolt in 7 Remington mag. Shoots flat as a varmint rifle. Sub 1/2” groups. Powerful enough for elk, etc. With their exceptional recoil pad, the recoil is quite manageable and I’m not a big guy. I wanted one rifle to hunt anything bigger than varmints in any conditions and it fits the bill perfectly.

I topped it off with a Leupold VX-6 2-12x42. I’m not saying its the end all, but I’d be comfortable taking it anywhere in the world as being accurate, reliable, and powerful.

Anyway, there are a ton of good ideas here. Hope it works out for you
 
I chose my caliber based on energy and (Colorado Rockies) bullet drop distances. Once I sussed the caliber out, I went reading, talking, and shopping around for the make and model of rifle. I chose a Winchester Model 70 that came with a muzzle brake in 7mm Remington Magnum. It was perfect for me.
 
I would go a whole different route and get a "disposable" rifle for his first. Ruger, Savage, etc in .308 or 30-06, with .270 or 6.5 CM a better option if Elk will be a few years out. Nothing wrong with the 7-08 or .308, but the 30-06 is a bit more All purpose, and I just like the .270. All make quality rifles at this time that outshoot their price point, and make a sound tool for developing riflery and hunting skills. If the Idaho hunting "sticks" for him and he wishes for something with a bit more class down the road, you'll have an excuse to move into a Sako, Steyr or something really custom once his preferences are nailed down. Worst case, the disposable rifle is a good spare, truck gun, or still worth at least 2/3 of it's value in resale.

Buy as much glass as you can afford, and plan on transferring this to his next rifle.
 
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