Extra small .22 pistols

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Hunter2011, Jan 27, 2016.

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  1. Hunter2011

    Hunter2011 Member

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    I am not starting this thread to make a caliber debate;)
    I just read an article about how popular these small North American Arms .22 rollies actually are. Then I thought, if a SA only, 5-shot .22 revolver can be so popular, why have no-one brought out a super compact pistol as well?
    Even if the magazine only holds 5 rounds, you still have 1 shot more than the NAA rollies as one round will be in the pipe. The grip can be made very small and thin, thereby reducing weight and increasing ultra concealability.
    Then you have all the bonusses of a pistol as well, like faster follow-up shots, extra magazines etc.
    I would rather buy a small DAO pistol like this than a SA revolver, in this size.

    That said, I carry a 9mm, but this is just a question that sprung up in my mind.
     
  2. Kiln

    Kiln Member

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    It is very hard to make micro .22lr pistols work correctly. That's why .25ACP exists, because even Browning couldn't figure out a way to make it reliable in a small package.

    There have been several tiny .22lr pistols and most of them had feeding problems.
     
  3. kBob

    kBob Member

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    OP,

    So you have not seen a Beretta 950 available in .22Short or .25 ACP?

    How about the slightly larger Beretta M21A in .22LR or .25ACP?

    Most of the smallest semi autos are in .25 ACP.

    BTW I think Beretta's signature ejector that tends to guide the rear of a cartridge as it is being loaded is the main reason they tend to be more reliable than others. The ejectors actually seem to preposition the round slightly forward and on the loading ramp before the slide starts forward just from the pressure of the magazine spring.

    AS noted though .22LR is difficult to get working right in a teenie tiny Semi auto. A little DA revolver would be hard to keep going what with wear on small parts.......of course there is always the RG series (guys, don't hurt me, he asked and I am teasing).

    I was all excited by the FTL9 back in the day. Great magazine reviews.....then I saw one in real life and talked to a couple of gunsmiths. This was of course long before I worked for a gun'zine so I was shocked to learn that some reviewers NEVER had a problem with ANY gun that might advertise in their 'zine.

    -kBob
     
  4. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    I think the main problems with really small .22 semi-autos is that the tolerances have to be very exacting because of the tiny dimensions of the design itself and the fact that rimfire ammo can be somewhat erratic in it's overall quality. The most reliable small .22 that I have, a Beretta Model 70S, is built on a medium .32/.380 frame.
     
  5. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    My personal favorite tiny .22 is the Walther TPH. They are really small and thin, easy to conceal and mine have been quite reliable. Expensive but high quality. I have several other small frame .22s but none other as small as the TPH. Hard to find, but it also comes in .25acp. Magazines hold six rounds.

    tph25019.jpg
     
  6. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I've seen reviews on the German-made TP-70, imported, I believe, by Norton. It was made in both .22 and .25. It's actually a DA/SA design, and reportedly about the size of the smallest Walther .22 guns, so still bigger than a one-inch micro-revolver. I thought it would be a neat little gun should I come across one.

    The smallest regularly-available .22 is the Jennings (now Jimenez) pistol. Mine, purchased new in 1987, is actually a pretty fun little shooter, and fairly accurate.

    As others have posted, anything smaller just wouldn't run well.

    If I ever get to wanting to hide a NAA-sized gun, I'd grab my Bauer .25 (especially since I don't own a NAA.)
     
  7. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    If you really want a micro automatic, the Baby Browning and copies are about as small as it gets, short of novelty guns like the Kolibris and Erikas.

    [​IMG]

    Compared to what? A Glock 19?

    My DB9 9mm is much shorter, much thinner, and weighs less than half of what a TPH does.
     
  8. Hunter2011

    Hunter2011 Member

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    I looked at it now. Yes, small it is, but it is just 1mm thinner than my 9mmP.
    I think a gun like this, despite being small will still print when put in a pocket, were the NAA will not. The pistol seems small enough, but I am sure they can afford to make the grip much smaller and thinner and reduce the hight. To make the grip smaller will surely not affect reliability? As we are talking low power it will still shoot good enough as the NAA have very small grips, and people get along with them just fine.
    For me the grip is always the most difficult part to conceal as that is the only part of the gun that always print.
    My PT709 is a small gun, to make the grip shorther will not work as it will make the 9mm difficult to control, but in a .25 or .22 it can work.
     
  9. justin22885

    justin22885 member

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    25acp>22lr in equal barrel lengths, dont read a box of 22lr ammo and believe those are the ballistics you'll get out of a pocket pistol, you quite literally will have performance and reliability inferior to that of the 25acp and you will save next to nothing in costs going with 22lr either
     
  10. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    My Taurus pt22 put 40 grain cci hv's out at 900fps avg., according to my chronograph.
     
  11. TruthTellers

    TruthTellers member

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    While true about .25 having more energy and penetration than .22 in equal barrel lengths, the difference is so negligible that I don't think it matters in any defensive conversation. I think .22 and .25 are equal in their ability to stop an attacker, which is to say they equally suck.

    The difference between the two is rimfire vs centerfire, ease of obtaining, and general use. If you have a .22 rifle, then you already have ammo for it and having .22 ammo is half the battle today. While .22 may be very hard to find, I think it's much easier and cheaper to get than .25 ACP is. While .25 is reloadable, how many people are actually going to reload it?

    I don't think a person can go wrong either way, but I think it's more practical to choose .22 or .25 and I think that shows with the lack of .25 pistols that are made today.
     
  12. TruthTellers

    TruthTellers member

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    The benefit of those small NAA mini .22 revolvers is most of them are built around the .22 Magnum, which is proven to be more effective than .22 LR, .25 ACP, and .32 ACP in its ballistics. Reloads are slow, but NAA has come out with a swing out cylinder model and is coming out with a new top break design, which can use small speedloaders because of the top break design.

    Are the reloads potentially as fast? No, but they're fast enough and my thinking is if I have to reload after 5 rounds, I'm either a really bad shot or I have more than target to take down.

    The added benefit of .22 Mag is it's only a cylinder swap away from shooting .22LR, .22 Long, or .22 Short.

    I'd rather take the NAA over a micro .25 because no matter how well made the pistol is, it's still a super small automatic and can't compare in reliability to a single action revolver.
     
  13. vaupet

    vaupet Member

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    if you want a realy tiny pistol, the fn baby browning in 25acp is the way to go, since 1905.
     
  14. lincen

    lincen Member

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    The little Astra Cub in 22 short is surprisingly accurate and my two have been reliable. Now I would not carry them for defense but they are fun at the range.
     
  15. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    I agree with vaupet:
    030_zpsbq0a4ubu.jpg
     
  16. kokapelli

    kokapelli Member

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    I had one and it was neat little pistol but it had feeding problems.
     
  17. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

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    You can still find the s&w model 61 escort around. I owned one in the 70's. It was small but picky about ammo.
     
  18. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Well small in autos really takes .25 ACP for most designs.

    Once again I will trot out a picture of Dad's pimped out CIB. Yes those are dings and scratches all over that nickel he had it plated with as he still drops change keys and crap in the same pocket it rides in when he feels the need.

    Back when it was all blue it was absolutely reliable, for all five shots. I've not shot it since the accident at the bumper platters, but he says it still does not choke up.

    -kBob
     

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  19. kBob

    kBob Member

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    And here is that little SATA from Italy I have posted before.

    -kBob
     

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  20. Tallball

    Tallball Member

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    I have that little tip-up barrel Taurus one that is a copy of a Beretta. It works fine, but I would have trouble shooting anything smaller.
     
  21. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Bannockburn, is that a nickeled Browning slide on a Bauer frame? I was under the impression the Browning was never made in stainless..
     
  22. Gordon
    • Contributing Member

    Gordon Contributing Member

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    The smallest Ive seen were the Bernadelli VB "baby" in .22 short or long. I still have one in .22 long some where but never had got it to feed an entire mag reliably, after many trys at polishing , replaceing extractors and springs and entire mags it will oly shot maybe 5 of 7 before a missfeed. :banghead: It is as small as th Baby Browning , maybe a little less. The Astra Cub .22 shorts are small and I have found them reliable and somewhat accurate :cool:
    https://www.gunsamerica.com/919900654/Bernadelli-VB-25-acp-Semi-auto-pistol-EARLY-1952-VEST-POCKET-PISTOL-VP.htm
    http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Bernardelli/BVP11/522BBabyL.jpg
     
  23. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Gordon,

    That nickeled little thing is the VP which is the closed slide version in .25ACP of VB .22 you had such bad luck with. In .25 it works.


    "gotta hot rod Ford and a two dollar bill...."
    -kBob
     
  24. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    MedWheeler

    My Baby Browning is the Lightweight Model which had a nickel plated slide (though I have seen it listed as being a chrome plated slide as well), anodized aluminum alloy frame, and pearl-like Ajax grips. I believe it is an earlier model as it came in a black cardboard box instead of the usual black vinyl Browning pouch.
     
  25. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    ^^ Copy that. I hadn't known such a version had been made. Thanks.
     
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