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Extreme files chapter 11

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by ohihunter2014, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Toprudder

    Toprudder Member

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    I've got literally buckets of Xtreme bullets in my inventory. Yeah, they have long delivery times, especially when they have a black-friday sale (which I take advantage of) but I keep more than enough stocked that I don't worry about it.

    I like their product, and will continue to buy from them. I hope they survive.
     
    kmw1954 and thomas15 like this.
  2. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Chances of coming out of chapter 11 successfully tend to be limited. Just because they got a second chance does not mean they will make it. Usually a company has to do some pretty unpleasant things to survive once they file chapter 11. A lot of company owners are unwilling to do what has to be done and they fail. Even if they do what has to be done they may fail.
     
    CoalTrain49 likes this.
  3. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    What percentage of manufacturers enter Chapter 11 and then fail to emerge or continue operating? Is there some data you have on the "limited chances"?

    Chances of success seem to have a lot to do with whether the problems are arising from temporary market conditions (change in input prices, interest rate hikes for leveraged businesses, temporary dip in consumer purchasing, etc.) or from secular market changes (fundamentally outmoded business model, fundamentally surpassed by competitors, etc.).
     
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  4. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Just to put my money where my mouth/preference is, I just ordered 2k projectiles from them. I used a true CC (rather than a debit card) so I have plenty of recourse if they just stop shipping entirely, but I'm not that worried about it. I figured every order they get right now is very important to their continued operation.
     
    refuse2bafool, kmw1954 and thomas15 like this.
  5. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    I guess I'm just going to use this as an inspiration to buy more of their bullets. Every little bit helps right?
     
    refuse2bafool and ATLDave like this.
  6. D Rock

    D Rock Member

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    I hope you both will share your experiences with us, good or bad.

    I still plan on ordering from X-Treme, I just have to whittle down my 6K 9mm bullets first.

    Dave
     
  7. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I have seen this happen many times after a recession. Companies borrow money at very low interest rates and then when the rates to up they can't service that debt. Like said above, good companies usually work through the filing and emerge from Chapter 11 in good shape.
     
    ATLDave likes this.
  8. JO JO

    JO JO Member

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    I am in the same boat like most reloaders most of us have stocked up on supply's that we can be more selective on buying and can wait for good sales , myself I could feed my press for a few years with what I have now , I think it is like the AR market the products are saturated and sales slow down, I do like xtreme but I normally wait for their big sales a buy,
     
  9. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    I've got about 25,000 Xtreme bullets sitting around here bought from their incredibly generous clearance sales. They were sold as cosmetic blems, and essentially all of them had absolutely nothing wrong with them. I was paying 5.5 cents/per shipped for 135gr. 9mm, 6.5 for 125gr. 38s and 7.5 cents for 158s, thick-plated HPs to boot. Each order took 2-4 weeks to arrive. So they were essentially giving away their most expensive grade of bullets at the same time they had so much demand they couldn't effectively service it. I was happy to take advantage, not needing them right away.

    Since then I bought 1K 40S&W bullets from them at a discounted retail price quite a bit higher than the clearance prices. They had more cosmetic issues than those sold as blems for 20% less. What I'm saying here is my numerous transactions with the company make me unsure they are a 'good company' as people charitably credit them in this thread. They seem to lack effective management entirely.

    Their products are good - especially the thick plated stuff, and when I was buying them cheaper than any other professionally manufactured bullet I could well ignore their organisational shortcomings. But at the same time I am left with the impression that it will take deep changes to right the ship. I hope they survive as I do like their products, but I'm thinking should pricing be held to profitable levels It will be possible to buy quality jacketed bullets from Everglades and RMR more cheaply. I love plated when they have a cost advantage..
     
  10. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    I thought Colt was going under a few years ago. They may still go under. They aren't a publicly traded company however so they don't have a bunch of idiots on the BOD. All of my Colts are pre C11, or at least the last C11 they went thru. Their quality got a lot better around 2002. I'm not sure what it's like now because I haven't bought any new ones in about 7 years. The ones I have are pretty good.
     
  11. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Their pricing strategy has been... confusing to me as an outside observer. For a while, they appeared to have been trying the Jos. A Bank model, wherein the stated "regular" price was basically only paid by people unlucky enough to happen to buy on one of the 6 days per year there wasn't some sort of sale. Eventually, they trained most of us not to buy except during their big sales and/or when our particular preferred bullet type came up as their "deal of the day." This probably limited their ability to raise prices in the event that their inputs increased. May have been part of their problem.
     
    bds likes this.
  12. D Rock

    D Rock Member

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    I think that's a pretty good assessment. Also have to factor wholesale to places like Cabala's, which to me is an unknown.

    One other factor to consider is that Freedom Munitions, over the past several years anyway. Has been using X-Treme brass. Before that I'm not sure were they got their brass. They used brass head stamped IMT and FT when I bought some for matches. That's the brass with the "step" in the case.
    P2182e2.jpg

    Dave
     
  13. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Yeah, that stepped brass is bad news! I have gotten 1500 of the xtreme-stamped 10mm brass. I like it so far. It's a cut below starline in terms of consistency, but still quite usable, and was noticeably less expensive.
     
    kmw1954 likes this.
  14. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    It really goes beyond that, as I described in my previous post. The 'deal of the day' prices are 5-10% discounts. And I agree one would be short-sighted not to wait for at least that level of discount considering how often it is made available. But the clearance sale section is a minimum of 30% discount. And some of the bullet styles or weights are only sold in 500 count lots otherwise, making the discounts that much deeper in the clearance section.

    I understand there may be a legitimate business need to clearance-sale items. But they had hundreds of thousands of bullets there for months that had nothing wrong with them and should have been sold for at least the 'deal of the day' prices. That translates to devaluing your own inventory, a business decision I question regardless of how well it served my purposes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    Dudedog and ATLDave like this.
  15. Average Joe

    Average Joe Member

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    Same thing happened to Remington, they are now solvent again, and I'm sure Xtreme will be also.
     
  16. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    If you really want to know the answer you can Google it but I can tell you that the number of successful chapter 11 bankruptcy is is somewhere between 10 and 25% depending on how you determine success
     
  17. nevadabob

    nevadabob Member

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  18. D Rock

    D Rock Member

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    Thanks for the link, nevadabob.

    Hope they have a management team that can pull things together. I can imagine there are some shocked and confused employees there as far as how to proceed.

    Dave
     
  19. Jesse Heywood

    Jesse Heywood Member

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    Long term success rate of chapter 11 cases is about 50%
    https://getoutofdebt.org/7233/the-t...dit-counseling-debt-settlement-and-bankruptcy
     
    ATLDave likes this.
  20. gifbohane

    gifbohane Member

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    That success rate of 50% covers individuals. Companies rarely survive long term (3 to 5 years.)
    Even after wiping out their debt in bankruptcy the same cast of characters that managed the business into bankruptcy remain in place and the poor practices continue with the same result...
     
    Walkalong likes this.
  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Man, I'm a lightweight. :D
     
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  22. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    I saw it as a possible once-in-ever chance to stock up. At 5.5-7.5 cents/per I'm glad I did.

    The sad part is that's just my plated inventory.:) I also have a fairly substantial pile of jacketed bullets from RMR. They will all get shot soon enough.
     
    Walkalong and Toprudder like this.
  23. higgite

    higgite Member

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    If you need any help using them up, I'm available. No need to thank me. :D
     
  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I have almost shot all of the 9MM 125 Gr JSPs I bought for $30 per thousand on sale some years back. I'm gonna miss them. :)
     
    Toprudder, ray15 and bds like this.
  25. bds

    bds Member

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    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
     
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