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Failure in Situational awareness

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by ZeeM, Nov 12, 2020.

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  1. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    I have worked as a security guard for a little over 12 years. I basically watch people for a living and I'm pretty good at it.

    Over time I've observed certain behavior patterns that when I see them I know that person is up to something.

    If I see somebody just aimlessly loitering someplace where there's really no reason for them to be loitering they're almost always doing something they're not supposed to be doing.



    According to almost all of the witnesses this guy was wandering around in one section of that store for 20 minutes and he never got more than a couple of feet away from the emergency exit.

    Another one that is somewhat specific to being a security guard is when just my presence changes their behavior. If the aimless loiterer watches me come around the corner making my rounds and he takes off he was up to something.


    The last one IMO is the most important
    If someone is paying an inordinate amount of attention to you, you had better be paying attention to them because it's been my experience but they're sizing you up and deciding whether or not you're a mark. Even if it's just to put the mooch on you for a couple of bucks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  2. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, and do not assume that he is alone.

    I'll add another. If you notice someone taking video of you, move instantly. Their intent may be to record an attack
     
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  3. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass member

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    Sheesh, look at all the dumb AS**'S walking around, pumping gas, crossing the road, and on and on with a cell phone. Stupid! Or the idiot that runs with ear buds and do not have a clue what is approaching. Virtually giving up all their natural senses that alert for danger. It is a chronic problem
    I was a Cross Country Runner since Middle School. Continued competitive running into my 50's and coached runners for years. I get really serious about cell phones and ear buds. Just bad news.
    Also advocated some type of protection when running. Most especially for women.
    We have a Forrest trail that goes for about 10 miles. Can be very lonesome at times yet some of these women would run alone on this trail. Down right scary. I have preached against this for years, not to mention a number of rapes have already occurred on this trail.

    SITUATIONAL AWARENESS-probably number one on the list to save your life.
     
  4. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Good put.

    When I see someone putting groceries into his car while talking on his cell phone, oblivious to everything around him, I'll comment to someone, "that shape his arm makes is 'V for vicim' ".

    Yes. We have neighbors who do that. I advise their spouses, to no avail.

    Right up there with being cautious about where you go.
     
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  5. AK Hunter

    AK Hunter Member

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    You could have noted the time before he got to you & just told him. It's not he has a job to go to, he just wanted to know about what time it was. Like within 15 min or so. It's always good to have a working idea of what time it is anyway.
     
  6. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Never been 'interviewed', have you? The time isn't what his asking was about.
     
  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Really?
     
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  8. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass member

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    There is the way things should be and the way things are. Obviously most people have empathy for the homeless and manyy just got a bad turn in life. But on the flip side is that they can be very dangerous. Mental disorders, serious drug addiction, criminals on the run etc. High risk. I would have advise a runner especially a female to take off on the run right away. Seconds could mean disaster. No need to worry about being polite. It does not take long for a knife or razor blade to come out quickly. What time is it? Sounds suspiciously like the old "do you have a light routine" get the victim to look away for a second and then strike.
     
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  9. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    talk loud, be confident, but don't forget there are crazy people who have no intention, but will if some rude jackass tells them to F-off about the time, especially when they are wearing a watch. My experience is that crazy/drugged out is more common than robber, and its much less drama to be polite to crazy/drugged.
    Speaking in loud confident friendly tones is about the best you can do.
     
  10. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    He didn't want to know what time it was he wanted to stop the guy so he could get something from him.

    Asking for the time evolves into "I'm down on my luck can you give me a handout?" or a mugging attempt.
     
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  11. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    I was out walking my dog one day and one of these idiots actually walked up to me on the sidewalk with a cell phone in his hand and asked if he could use mine.

    I'm pretty sure I didn't even bother to answer him.

    That tends to go away the second or third time one of them tries to kill you
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  12. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Any homeless person approaching you constitutes a potential risk. I was ready for the one who walked up to me looking at my cameras before I boarded a train for Chicago. And I was ready before he asked if I were going to be taking pictures of the Cubbies. That was in January.

    Would you walk anywhere near the man standing by the truck with smeared license plates as he watches people leaving the store? I didn't.

    What about the man who immediately changes the direction in which he is driving upon noticing a women standing by an ATM, and stops nearby? I was ready for him. We don't use ATMs anymore.

    JohnKSa recently posted this in another thread. I think it is relevant.

    "I'm always struck by how many people I see in after-action interviews saying things like: "I can't believe it happened to me.", "I could hardly believe it was happening to me.", and "I had to convince myself it was really happening.".

    "This says to me that there's a strong tendency for people to avoid thinking about possible outcomes. They don't look at the things that happen to others and internalize the lesson that the same things could happen to them. I see people talking about using deadly force in terms that makes it plain they have given zero consideration to the idea that they might not live through a shooting or might be maimed for life if they do. I see people talking about guns as if they are magic talismans--as if their mere presence will guarantee a good outcome independent of their level of skill, situational awareness or level of preparation.

    "That says to me that for many people (most people?) how comfortable they feel as they go through their daily routine is mostly disconnected from reality. Their comfort level doesn't have much to do with the level of risk they are actually running. They are comfortable not because they are safe but because they refuse (at some level) to really acknowledge all the possible outcomes and are ignoring many of the risks that they are actually running."
    Again, situational awareness is important. Acting upon it effectively and decisively is equally important.
     
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  13. armedwalleye

    armedwalleye Member

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    I agree with others. If you feel the need to respond at all, a simple glance at the watch, call out the time to him, but KEEP ON MOVING. A polite wave of the hand and "Sorry, dude, can't stop!" and KEEP ON MOVING. Ignore him completely but KEEP ON MOVING. Anything that gets you to stop sets you up as a target; for an assault, for a panhandle attempt, or for a longer conversation. Once you allow him to close the distance, you've set yourself up.
     
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  14. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    FIFY
     
  15. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, yeah.

    A pretty coed with a winning smile, or a woman pushing a baby carriage, mat well constitute a threat. Don't allow yourself to be victimized.

    But a homeless person is more apt to be emotionally unbalanced, desperate, and armed.
     
  16. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    IME I have never seen a homeless person who wasn't armed with something . I've also never seen a homeless person who hasn't (hadn't?) been in multiple violent encounters.

    I've said this several times before but the homeless population in Colorado Springs attack each other all the time. It doesn't make the news because they're homeless.

    There used to be an old wino named Mumbles who lived down town. Mumbles had Hepatitis. If you didn't mess with him, he wouldn't mess with you but if you trifled with him he'd bite you.

    The point I want to make is that most of us have an ingrained inhibition against violence, most homeless people I've encountered don't and it's important to take that into account when you deal with them.
     
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  17. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    Yall better watch how you talk or people will think you're a bunch of home-less-a-phobes. :D

    In keeping with the recent trend of using WAY more words than necessary to define something, I believe the new, correct description is;

    "a person experiencing homelessness.":scrutiny:

    Since I'm not a LEO or a social worker, I avoid these people.
     
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  18. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    I am.

    AKA a Street Rat
     
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  19. Driftertank

    Driftertank Member

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    I'm surprised nobody mentioned, or maybe I'm just too old fashioned...

    "Hey buddy, you got the time?" is one of the oldest clichés of someone looking for a mark, and a phrase that always puts me on edge anyway. In the old days, the well-to-do were often fond of wearing expensive, ornate watches. I'm talkin way back in the 90s and whatnot...

    Anyway, ask someone the time, get a look at his watch. See if he looks like he'd be worth picking over. Also, as most of you HAVE picked up, it gets you looking at your watch (or smartphone, these days) and not at your new "buddy"....

    So yeah, "Hey do you have the time?" from a random person on the street ALWAYS puts me on guard.
     
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  20. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    Urban Outdoorsmen and Women.
     
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  21. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    While this started out about what might be prudent in encountering a homeless person, it would be a mistake to put that experience among the top ten things to watch out for.

    And again, had this incident resulted in violence, it would nit have been a failure of awareness. It would have been a failure in decision-making and action that a quick u-turn would have avoided.

    We have had failures in situational awareness that had serious consequences. Joggers using ear-buds, persons pushing baby carriages while texting, shoppers sttting for a moment to make a call before leaving the lot....

    That last one resulted in a kidnapping nearby. The vicim was released, with a bank balance of zero.
     
  22. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    There was a woman who was attacked in Palmer Park which is a large part in the center of Colorado Springs about a year ago. The original news stories said she was jogging with her earbuds in and the guy ran up from behind her and knocked her down.

    Apparently there were witnesses that came around the trail and the guy took off. I found a couple of video news stories about the attack but oddly enough none of them mentioned that she was wearing earbuds
     
  23. SteadyD

    SteadyD Member

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    “How you treat the least of these among my brothers is how you treated me”

    I would much prefer to approach the situation in a way that shows kindness, dignity, and respect whilst also staying safe.
     
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  24. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Yeah, Jesus probably didn't conduct robbery interviews.
     
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  25. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Administrator Staff Member

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    And while keeping in mind that predators will use your ingrained desire to remain polite and to be non-confrontational against you to gain an advantage.
     
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