FAL versus M-14/M-1A versus AR-10/SR-25

[chieftain]

Anthony,

The M14/M1A and M1 Garand, have arguably the best sights ever placed on a combat rifle. I am sorry if I seem to be quibbling.

As far as scopes go, why, if you want a tack driver set one up as a long range dinger! Get a bolt action, cheaper and more accurate with a greater range of ammo.

If you are thinking along the lines of red dot, go with a M1A scout rifle from Springfield with with the rail set up forward of the reciever and shortened barrel. Can also place a scout scope also.

If you want to scope a rifle, find something easy to scope, and spend the money to make it accurate enough to justify the scope.

Springfield makes a M1A version for about 2500 dollars that ought float your boat if scoped is what it's about for you.

Hey, the FN is a good design, the M14 is/was better.

Good luck with what ever you choose. Oh and get what you want, if you don't you will just wind up trading/selling what you get to get what you want. Just go for it!

Fred

 

[Anthony]

Actually I am not interested in scoping the rifle for super long range accuracy. I am a strong believer in the utility of dot sights and other low power optics on combat rifles.

I wonder if you can get a scout scope mount for the full length version of the M-1A as I am not particularly keen on a short .308 rifle.

- Anthony

 

[chieftain]

My guess is that you could have the scout mount put on a full length rifle.

But if you are using the scout concept you don't need the extra very few FPS of the full lenght barrel.

I use a Remington model 7 20" synthetic stock Cryo'd barrel and a trigger and bedding job. Do all my hunting with it. I don't feel I give up any thing with the short barrel.

what ever you choose good luck and be safe.

Fred

 

[JShirley]

There are specific attributes that define an assault rifle. Among other things, assault rifles fire "intermediate" cartridges [5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, etc]. By definition, an FAL is a main battle rifle.

"Assault rifles" or "assault weapons" are titles that have been often misused by the antifreedom and -gun crowd, so we as legitimate firearm folk would do well to use them correctly.

 

[AK103K]

Perhaps we should just call them all "rifles", and leave any discriptors off. They are in fact just that. As for the MBR title, I dont think that really appiles anymore to the 7.62x51 caliber guns. They really are no longer the "main battle rifle" of any major, and for that matter, minor nation.(what, 2 or 3 in the world, sorry dont count ) The 5.56 and 5.45, 7.62x39 cartridges have long surpassed the 7.52x51 at this. So, I guess its regulated to the "homeland defense" position. And for as heavy as they are, and the state of physical conditioning of most people in the US, it makes the most sense. It will be much easier to just sit on the couch with your"rifle" in your lap, with a beer and watching football, waiting for whatever is coming your way. Another beer?

 

[Anthony]

What kind of loads do ya'all keep in your .308 battle rifles?

- Anthony

 

[Steve Smith]

Good quality mil-surp. Its normally sealed, so you don't have to worry about it at all.

 

[Frohickey]

Actually, I don't think the M14/M1A is ambidextrous.

In the M14/M1A, the safety is located by the trigger guard, so left handed or right handed shooters use the trigger finger or hand to engage or disengage the safety. To reload and charge the M14/M1A, you need to use the right hand.

For right handers, the left hand stays on the foregrip, the right hand, which is the trigger hand, takes out the empty magazine, grabs another magazine, latches it into the magazine well, and also pulls back on the charging handle/op rod.

For left handers, you would have to switch the gun to the left hand, and use the right hand to do the above steps. Sure, you can keep the left hand on the stock grip, but you would have to elevate the rifle muzzle to do so. Same with righthanders wanting to keep the right hand on the stock grip. Righthanders who do this, would also have to use the left hand to reach up and over the rifle to release the op rod.

FN-FAL presents its own set of issues as well.

 

[AK103K]

These are minor issues that training takes care of. The M14's controls are accessible to both right and left handed people with "minor" adaptations in tecnique. You cant do this as easily, if at all with the FAL, HK, etc. The AK is actually closer to the M14 in this respect than any of the others. Its not difficult for a lefty to hold the grip and make mag changes and recharge the rifle. It would definitly be more difficult for them to accomplish that with the FAL, HK, etc, and the stock safety is pretty much totally out. Then again, where these a will, theres a way. Training yourself to work through the problems usually presents solutions. If possible, its best to try all the different designs, just to know how to work them if you were ever to need to.

 

[saki302]

Hey, do what I did, buy one of each

DSA FAL (built on Imbel receiver with surplus parts, BY DSA!)
M1A
AR10-T

I would have bought a G3-type rifle too if the bas$#@%rds in CA didn't ban the durned things so quick!

So far, I like the feel of the M1A best- it does need to be glass bedded to get the full accuracy out of it though (mine has everything the Nat'l match does except the bedding, and my uncle's NM gets grouns 1/2 the sie of mine). The FAL looks meanest, and I've gotten pretty good accracy out of it with military ammo so far, but no formal groups yet. The gas system is finicky and must be dialed in just so for your ammo (used in combat I'd probably just let it batter itself a bit to be safe).

The AR-10 is a little ergonomically tight for me. To enjoy it, I'll have to lengthen the stock and handgrip positions. It's hellaciously front heavy too (full length heavy barrel). After feeling my uncle's SR-25, I had to work on the trigger at once- it was embarrasing
It seems like it wants to go 3/4-1/2 moa, but not with me shooting it yet! Remington match ammo seems to group best, but I only got to try 5 rounds

If I could only have one forever.. hrmm.. probably M1A/M14 (with bedding!)- it's never jammed or hiccuped on me yet, and the bedded NM shoots MOA easy with iron sights. I wouldnt; mind the AR-10 either as a combat rifle, but with a lighter barrel. A forward assist would be a nice touch too- the AR-10T the way it is, is a fine target rifle, but lacks a few features to be a great battlefield piece.

-Dave

 

[Anthony]

Do you FAL owners feel that the newer DSA production FALs are vastly superior to the kits assembled by gunsmiths?

- Anthony

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I have an original, Belgian made FN-LAR, imported by Steyr, that I purchased in 1982.

It's a great rifle, but...

I prefer the M1A and M1 Garand.

I see Springfield is now producing a .308 caliber M1 Garand. Hmmm...

 

[kutter_1313]

Pro/Con report

PRO
FAL: Issued rifle for almost 60 govt militaries worldwide, largely on the African continent, where heartyness and survivability are key. Design and location of mag and bolt release make for excelent high-speed mag changes. 20 and 30round mags are plentiful and cheap, as well as sturdy. A++

G3: Almost as common worldwide as the FAL, and 20 round mags are even cheaper!

M1A/M14: an upgrade from the Garand, highly reliable, easy to find in US.

AR-10: original design submitted in 1956 to compete with FAL and M1A for US military adoption. In 1965 Army requested that it be 'downsized' to 5.56mm. if you are familiar with the M16, this rifle will be easy to adapt to.

Cons
FAL: original sights suck ass, but DSA offers 'A2 Hampton' sight option to correct this!

G3: sights also suck ass, no known cure(aside from mounting an ACOG). only mag release on US made rifles is too far forward for anyone I know to reach from a firing grip, and BATFE won't allow instalation of any kind of paddle release! Rifle has NO last round bolt catch mechanism!

M1A/M14: Mag feed lips are easy to bend, causing failure to feed

AR-10: Mags are really hard to find. Have been looking for mags for my buddy for 2 months, still nothin... I'm guessing they only make 2 per rifle, but I could be wrong... Also, rifle operates by DIRECT GAS!

Final opinion: Still trying to save money for a DSA FAL, but bought 2 dozen G3 mags in case I end up with one of those...

I have never heard a negative word about a DSA FAL, tho my advice would be to get these options:

A2 Hampton rear sight
sand cuts
'full length' gas piston setup, rather than 'carbine'
SAW pistol grip
'tactical' selector switch

There are other good ones, but this is my list of 'must haves'

 

[Eightball]

For me, right now? I have a Garand, and I'm familiar with it, so I'd give an edge to the M1A series. That being said, the FAL is an appealing design, and would probably be my choice after extensive training with it/a derivative thereof....but I don't have that training yet.

Though, if it was a toss up between similarly outfitted 16" versions of a FAL and the M1A......I might still pick the M1A, as the design has been proven time and time again, and I just like it more.

The SR25's just too freakin' expensive for me to even consider.

 

[elmerfudd]

I think the AR10 is the best in this role since it can double as a sniper rifle with relatively few modifications and IMO, that is the real strength of the .308 cartridge. It's the most accurate and is the best for optics mounting.

The other two are both great rifles, but the FAL is a little lacking in accuracy for precision shooting and the M1A was never really designed to accept a scope. Sure you can scope it, but you have issues with mounts and cheekweld that you just don't have with an AR platform.

 

[H2O MAN]

BHP9


As far as the AR15 7.62x51 is concerned:

This weapon is notorious for being subject to stoppages when it gets dirty from its open gas system that sprays burnt powder all over the action and when mixes with rain water you have real problem with them. It is also know for being unreliable in sandy conditions.

It has also been known on average to have a very creepy trigger pull. Of course there are civilian match triggers available for this weapon. On the plus side in its heavy barrel configuration it is a very, very accurate weapon but due to its reliability I rule it out for serious military applications. Its a great rifle for the pristine , immaculate , civilian target range but not for the battlefield.

Well said.

I did my homework years ago and decided that the M14 was the all-around best general purpose
battle rifle for my money and then I went with the modernized MK14 and Crazy Horse versions of it.
DMR, SASS, CQB... the M14 does it all.

I voted for the M14.

 

[Travis Bickle]

I have a FAL and it's a great rifle, but if I had it to do all over again, I'd go with the PTR-91.

No semiauto on the market is as reliable as that, not even the vaunted AK.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Old threads never die, they just fray a bit.

 

[JShirley]

Sometimes they should die.

If you ask Tamara her opinion of HK today, it would be different. If you asked Byron his opinion of HK today...well, he sold his HK 91 finally and bought a G1 (FAL type) rifle.

I'm not saying don't buy an HK or M1A. I am saying, if you want to talk about it today...start another thread.

John