Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time

Discussion in 'Legal' started by gmark340, Jul 1, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. gmark340

    gmark340 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
    Messages:
    59
    Somewhat misleading in that the article doesn't mention the large percentage of firearms that are not submitted to the US for tracing, or the large percentage that are stolen from the Mexican military and police. However, the bigger question, to me, anyway, is what power do the Feds have to show up at your house to ask to see your guns? If the homeowner says "I don't care to speak with you. Come back with warrant." would that send them on their way?

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6505651.html

    Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time
    By DANE SCHILLER Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle
    June 30, 2009, 9:36PM
    Share Print Share Del.icio.usDiggTwitterYahoo! BuzzFacebookStumbleUponIn front of a run-down shack in north Houston, federal agents step from a government sedan into 102-degree heat and face a critical question: How can the woman living here buy four high-end handguns in one day?

    The house is worth $35,000. A screen dangles by a wall-unit air conditioner. Porch swing slats are smashed, the smattering of grass is flattened by cars and burned yellow by sun.

    “I’ll do the talking on this one,” agent Tim Sloan, of South Carolina, told partner Brian Tumiel, of New York.

    Success on the front lines of a government blitz on gunrunners supplying Mexican drug cartels with Houston weaponry hinges on logging heavy miles and knocking on countless doors. Dozens of agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives — sent here from around the country — are needed to follow what ATF acting director Kenneth Melson described as a “massive number of investigative leads.”

    All told, Mexican officials in 2008 asked federal agents to trace the origins of more than 7,500 firearms recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Most of them were traced back to Texas, California and Arizona.

    Among other things, the agents are combing neighborhoods and asking people about suspicious purchases as well as seeking explanations as to how their guns ended up used in murders, kidnappings and other crimes in Mexico.

    “Ever turning up the heat on cartels, our law enforcement and military partners in the government of Mexico have been working more closely with the ATF by sharing information and intelligence,” Melson said Tuesday during a firearms-trafficking summit in New Mexico.

    Firearms dealers visited
    The ATF recently dispatched 100 veteran agents to its Houston division, which reaches to the border.

    The mission is especially challenging because, officials say, that while Houston is the number one point of origin for weapons traced back to the United States from Mexico, the government can’t compile databases on gun owners under federal law.

    Agents instead review firearms dealers’ records in person.

    People who are legally in the United States and have clean criminal records, but are facing economic problems are often recruited by traffickers to buy weapons on their behalf in order to shield themselves from scrutiny.

    Knocks at the door of the shack that looked to be the definition of hard times went unanswered.

    “I am out of here,” Sloan said a few moments later, as a pit bull lazily sauntered from the back yard. “I don’t like pit bulls walking up behind me.”

    Best information source
    On second thought, Sloan switched to Spanish and interviewed a neighbor.

    The neighbor said the woman left a month ago after a fight with her husband or boyfriend, who still lived there with what she called “other degenerates.”

    “An angry ex-girlfriend or wife is the best person in the world, the greatest source of information,” Sloan said.

    The night before, the duo were in a stakeout where they watched a weapons sale.

    They also combined efforts with the Drug Enforcement Administration for an aircraft to stealthily follow traffickers to the border.

    On this day, agents weren’t wearing raid jackets or combat boots and weren’t armed with warrants.

    Guns were hidden under civilian shirts.

    Another tip took agents on a 30-minute drive from the shack to a sprawling home with a pool in the back and an American flag out front.

    It turned out two handguns, of a type drug gangsters prefer, were bought by a pastor for target practice.

    Some stories, they say, are hard to believe.

    The lamest so far came from a police officer: He said he bought a few military-style rifles, left them in his car and — on the same night — forgot to lock a door. He couldn’t explain why he didn’t file a police report or why he visited Mexico the day after the alleged theft.
     
  2. jackdanson

    jackdanson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    859
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=455650

    I'm quite angry, that is all I've got to say.
     
  3. texas bulldog

    texas bulldog Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,013
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Why does the author think it's so hard to believe that a pastor bought two handguns? What is this country coming to?!?
     
  4. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Round Rock, TX
    Similar to door to door salesman, police generally have the right to knock on your door and ask to speak with you, ask to see your guns, ask to search your house, etc. You have every right to say no.
     
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    Would love to know what that is.

    Glock maybe? So Glocks ,the number one selling handgun in the country, are now suspicious on their own?

    Would love to know what that means "a type drug gangsters prefer".

    The important part is that you have the right to tell them NO. Amazing to me why so many people fail to exercise that right.
     
  6. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Round Rock, TX
    I don't know what they based it on, but they have a pretty narrowly defined list, most of which are not too popular in terms of sales volume. Calibers like 5.7 and .38 Super are apparently biggies; I had to count how many I had sold at my last inspection.
     
  7. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,191
    Location:
    The Land of Bowie, Crockett, Travis & Houston
    Wonder what they will do when they found out I bought one (or two :D) for CCW purpose?

    You know how it goes...got one of those gangstah .38 snubbies. Might even get a sight installed on the side of the barrel.

    This witch hunt is getting absurd...as are the commentary given by most media politikal officers, er...I mean writers.

    Q
     
  8. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    Guess I'm next on the list then, I have both of those LOL
     
  9. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,191
    Location:
    The Land of Bowie, Crockett, Travis & Houston
    Those are "biggies" because in Mexico, the law is - or, at least it was - that civilians could not own military calibers. Thus, 9mm, .45ACP, et. al., were verboten...I mean, no esta bueno.

    The .38 Super has historically been a favorite down there for this exact reason.

    Q
     
  10. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    So that's a hilarious argument, our government must be made of geniuses.

    The people buying illegal guns to use in illegal activities are worried about having the firearm be in a legal caliber? LOL
     
  11. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,191
    Location:
    The Land of Bowie, Crockett, Travis & Houston
    It's *GOVERNMENT*.
    It doesn't have to make sense.

    And besides, it's THEIR government with the law. Ours just gets to play cops for them.

    You know, I wonder if the Justice Dept sends them a bill for the hours spent chasing down their guns.

    Too, I wonder if the Mexican Gov't sends us a bill for the hour (singular) they spent (past tense) chasing down illegal drug trafficers.

    Q
     
  12. peyton

    peyton Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2006
    Messages:
    658
    Rush started his show with this. He pointed out that FDR outlawed gold private ownership by executive order, our president will do the same with guns.
     
  13. SHusky57

    SHusky57 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    376
    Christiangunowner.com is a pastor who loves Glocks.
    Gangsters use Glocks.
    Law enforcement use Glocks.
    NATO militaries use Glocks.
    Sport shooters use Glocks.

    So, technically, it's truthful to say "type preferred by gangsters." It's just dishonest to leave out the Law enforcement, sport shooter, NATO, civilian part.
     
  14. Spreadfire Arms

    Spreadfire Arms Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,312
    i was told from a reliable source, some time ago (which now may have changed), that the two most popular pistols going south of the border are a Glock 17 and a Beretta 92. they were supposedly the two most sought-after weapons. i dont really sell either one, and i dont own either one, so i guess it doesn't really affect me.

    i was told that the reason why is because both are 9mm and weapons familiar to persons trained by the military (i would assume the Mexican Military).

    of course this date may have changed. that was about a year ago.
     
  15. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Californicated Colorado
    What's a drug gangster?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
  16. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,300
    Location:
    Round Rock, TX
    I was interested in the fact that they didn't take any information on the ones I had sold. 4473s weren't referenced, just interest in the number that have left the premises.

    I haven't checked the Mexican laws in a few years, but IIRC there was a distinction between levels of punishment (i.e. felony vs. misdemeanor) based on the caliber. I think the theory is that if you are going to have a gun you might as well carry the one that gets you the least punishment. I'm not saying it makes much sense, just a tiny bit.
     
  17. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,773
    Location:
    Illinois`
    .38 Supers are still popular in Mexico

    The largest legal semi-automatic caliber a citizen can possess is .380acp and it has been that way for over fifteen years.

    This "journalist" story reeks of hype without much substance.



    The cop being the victim of a theft story is priceless.
    The "cop" must have been so rookie his shoes had not yet been scuffed.

    I call B.S.
     
  18. NC-Mike

    NC-Mike Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,228
    Why are people questioning the Feds doing a strawman-purchasing investigation?

    Strawman purchases are where thugs get most of their guns and here the Feds are doing something about and trying to enforce the laws we have, instead of passing new laws to solve the obvious problem.

    Let them have at it, they didn't seem to be breaking any laws or violating anyone's civil rights in the course of their investigation.
     
  19. jackdanson

    jackdanson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    859
    Because they are selecting people at random, not because they have probable cause or the belief that they did something wrong.

    Should the feds question everyone who has an internet connection to see if they have any child pornography? Should everyone who buys a bag of fertilizer at home depot be questioned?

    Actually it's theft, but whatever.

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=455650

    They want to imprison you, they need convictions to justify why they exist.
     
  20. conw

    conw Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    3,364
    Schiller is a shill.
     
  21. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,801
    The story is so vague and full of holes, its almost not even there.

    No supported facts only conjecture. What a hack.

    What makes it even worse is an editor of some kind had to approve that swill. That makes at least two people who should give their degrees back.

    I really like the description of the house with pool and the "FLAG" out front.

    Obviously the home owner is a right wing insurrectionist modern militia member.
     
  22. eye5600

    eye5600 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    644
    More likely they are interested in the availability of ammunition.

    I do like the way the story builds sympathy for the Feds because they have to do their questioning in 102 degree heat, and are harassed by lazy pit bulls.
     
  23. Hush

    Hush Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    61
    The guns referred to as "gangster guns" are probably garbage guns like Hi-Point, etc. Far fewer guns are going into mexico from the northern border. They certainy dont get all their full auto AK's from the US. This whole myth is designed to tighten gun control laws for US.
     
  24. Rockwell1

    Rockwell1 member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,082
    Read some of the comments, the antis are coming out of the woodwork
     
  25. NC-Mike

    NC-Mike Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,228
    That wasn't in the story and no, they aren't checking people at random. Where are you getting your information?


    That has nothing to do with whether or not the feds should conduct investigations of people suspected of strawman purchasing. And IMHO, the answer to that question is yes they should and they should do so vigorously.


    Straw-purchasing is a significant channel for getting guns into criminals hands.

    http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/pdf/followingthegun_internet.pdf

    Channels of Illegal Supply

    ATF’s review of recent trafficking investigations clearly demonstrates that many firearms are diverted from legal commerce through a variety of illegal channels that law enforcement agencies can target effectively to reduce criminal and juvenile access to firearms.

    Trafficking by corrupt FFLs.

    Although FFL traffickers were involved in the smallest proportion of ATF trafficking investigations, under 10 percent, cases involving FFL traffickers were associated with the largest total number of illegally diverted firearms, over 40,000, as compared to the other trafficking channels.34

    All investigations involving FFL traffickers were associated with by far the highest average number of guns per investigation, over 350. But this number rose to over 560 guns in investigations of FFLs acting alone, and to over 575
    guns when FFLs conspired with unlicensed sellers. Trafficking cases involved retail firearms dealers, pawnbrokers, and residential FFLs.

    Gun shows and flea markets.

    Gun shows and flea markets are a major venue for illegal trafficking. About 14 percent of the investigations involved gun shows and flea markets. These investigations involved an average of 130 guns, the second highest number of trafficked guns per investigation, and were associated with approximately 26,000 illegally diverted firearms. Gun show investigations involved both FFL traffickers and unlicensed dealers.

    Straw purchasers.

    Straw purchasing rings and small scale straw purchasers comprised nearly
    50 percent of the trafficking investigations, by far the largest number of trafficking investigations, and although the average number of guns
    per investigation was under 40, they accounted for nearly 26,000 trafficked firearms, about the same number of firearms as gun show investigations.
    Straw purchasers may be friends, paid associates, relatives, intimates, or members of the same gang.

    Trafficking by unlicensed sellers.

    Unlicensed sellers (not associated with gun shows and not straw purchasers) were the focus of about 20 percent of the investigations, involving over 22,000 trafficked firearms, and about 75 guns
    per investigation.

    Trafficking in stolen firearms.

    Survey evidence indicates there are at least 500,000 firearms stolen annually from residences.35 It is, therefore, not surprising that some of these firearms
    are circulating in the illegal market, as are guns stolen from FFLs and common carriers. Trafficking investigations involving firearms stolen from residences, FFLs, and common carriers combined made up about a quarter of the
    trafficking investigations, and were associated with over 11,000 trafficked firearms. Because of the small number of investigations involving thefts of firearms from common carriers, about 2 percent of the investigations, this trafficking channel yielded the smallest total number of firearms, although it averaged a substantial number of illegally diverted firearms per investigation,
    over 66.


    :rolleyes:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page