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Federal appeals court sides with physicians in ‘docs vs. Glocks’ case

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Aim1, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    I am an Leo, I work for the county. When I go to our clinic I always fill out the questionnaire. I fill in my name, where I work, the SO, my title- Deputy Sheriff, and the rest of the questions. When I get to the one that asks me about firearms I chuckle and leave it blank. They've never pressed the issue. Heck the nurses even ask me if I want to take my gun and extra mag off before I weigh in... No one cares.
     
  2. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    Is the subject pertinent to medical health? Yes, of course. It could be relevant to the discussion and treatment of possible retinal detachment, tinnitus and hearing loss, tendonitis, arthritis,nerve damage, elevated lead levels or the presence other toxins, and other things.
     
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  3. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    When my wife fell for it and answered 'yes', the nurse followed up with, "Do you keep any of them loaded, locked in a secure safe, or accessible to anyone such as a child"?

    And of course once they've entered something into their records, you can't have it removed or changed.
     
  4. Hoppes Love Potion

    Hoppes Love Potion Member

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    Doc: Do you keep guns in the house?

    Me: No, but I keep a medical professional around just in case.

    Doc: In case of what? A gunshot wound?

    Me: No, in case I want to risk an accidental death. 450,000 per year committed by medical professionals. Only 500 accidental deaths per year due to guns. What was the question again?
     
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  5. DMK

    DMK Member

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    I've never had the question asked. However, I would not be answering that question. I don't think a doctor is responsible for the safety of your home, just your health. A doctor doesn't have a right to ask me what car I drive or what neighborhood I live in either.

    What to Do When Your Doctor Asks About Guns

    https://drgo.us/?p=1621

    Your right to own a firearm is enshrined in the Constitution. Don’t let any doctor or health plan intimidate you into giving up your civil rights.
     
  6. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Yes, he does. Of course he does. Just as you have the right to ask him the same thing and both of you have the right to give any answer you please.
     
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  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    See Post 27.

    This reminds me. Forty nine years ago, an optometrist asked whether I shot guns. Reason: tempered lenses would (at that time) be a good idea in the event of ruptured cartridge case. I know about the risk now, but I did not know it when I was thirteen. He was a completive bullseye shooter.

    Quite a number of years ago, optometrist often asked if patients had computers. The question was related to prescriptions on blended bifocals. They don;t ask that today--everone has a computer.
     
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  8. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    I have a FFL and did a lot of electrical work at the local hospital. You would be amazed at how many doctors that I sold guns to. Even got referrals from them. None have asked me if I owned guns when I went in for a checkup.
     
  9. Tcruse

    Tcruse Member

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    The real issue is that Electronic Health Records are required for most doctors, all that file Medicare or Medicaid claims. Part of the EHR requirement is the ability to report medical information to government agencies as requested. The Meaningful Use requirements mean that doctors will receive reduced pay if they do not report information that we may think is not shared. So, this is one more route for the government to have a registry of gun owners. Refusing to answer will be recorded and may affect insurance payments and coverage, if not now at some future time. EHR seems like a really good thing on paper, however, the implementation has been shown to increase cost and reduce the quality of medical care. Time to have less government in the health care world.
     
  10. Tcruse

    Tcruse Member

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    I suspect that you are correct and I have not had any gun ownership questions asked. I have had discussion about potential lead exposure issues but I brought up the issue. Now, if we lived in "liberal" strongholds the question is much more likely to be asked and used in ways not in our best interest.
     
  11. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    Cite the legal authority for this contention. Specifically demonstrate how such disclosure would comply with the rules on uses and disclosures of protected health information set out in 45 CFR 164.512.
     
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  12. jmf552

    jmf552 Member

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    This reminds me of a joke by comedian Stephen Wright. He used it in the context of answering a border guard going into Canada, but it can be adapted for doctors.

    Doctor: Do have any guns?

    Patient: What do you need?
     
  13. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    There are certain circumstances under which there may be a legitimate reason for the question. Of course, it would have more to do with whether or not you shoot guns than own them, and directly related to issues arising from lead toxicity or the recoil affecting joints, eyes, or other parts of the anatomy.

    I also agree that the government has no business trying to restrict what questions one private citizen may ask another.

    Having said that, if I went in for a general check-up, pathogenic illness, or anything else completely unrelated to the way recoil (or lead inhalation) may affect my body, it's none of their business, and I would flat out lie. There are very few circumstances under which I feel that lying is appropriate, justifiable. This is one of them.
     
  14. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    My dad had an interesting conversation with his doctor last year about firearms.

    Doc: "We need to schedule you for rotator cuff surgery."
    Dad: "You'd better schedule it after deer season is over."
    Doc: "We can do that. What gun do you shoot?"
    Dad: ".30-06"
    Doc: "You may want to consider something with less recoil if you shoot off your right shoulder. It won't do any more damage, but that is going to hurt."

    Turns out his doctor is a hunter. lol

    With that being said, when they ask that question, just lie.
    If that is morally unacceptable to you, tell them its none of their business, but that actually tells them what they're asking.
     
  15. RKRCPA

    RKRCPA Member

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    My opinion, it's a legitimate question if you are trying to determine if there are children at risk due to unsafe storage practices. Let's face it, there are a lot of dumbasses with guns out there and they need to be found and educated. The question is how do you find them and get good info to them. Personally, I think that a brochure with objective, relevant information mailed to every household in the country would be a good start. Would it be overkill inasmuch as it would be sent to people who either already know better or people that don't own firearms? Sure. But let's face it, there are way too many accidental deaths due to firearms. Something should be done, anybody have a better idea?
     
  16. Drail

    Drail Member

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    If ANY doctor were to start asking questions about my firearms I would simply get up and walk out of their office and never go back. My personal property is absolutely NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. If they cannot understand that then I will have nothing to do with them. They are NOT my parents and they are not "agents" of the Govt. They are just a doctor with a political agenda and these type of questions need to be stopped immediately regardless of any reason they may think they have to ask them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  17. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    They can ask, and you can tell them whatever you want to tell them. Personally, I don't really care if someone knows that I'm a gun owner in today's world, but if the political tide ever changes to the point that I don't want them to know, I simply won't tell anyone. Whether or not they can someday show an oppressive government that my truthful answer was in my medical records from 2015, 2016, or 2017 is of no consequence to me... the government has plenty of other records to show that I legally bought guns during this time, so I'm hiding from nothing. Nevertheless, there's absolutely no legal requirement for you to be honest with your doctor about guns, and lying about this subject will have exactly zero consequences in terms of your medical care.

    I've only personally heard this question a couple of times, and I answered it honestly. The most recent occasion involved a nurse or social worker who was reading me the questions from a pre-written questionnaire, and immediately followed up with gun safety questions that she was also reading from the questionnaire. I was actually at the hospital for one of my wife's surgeries at the time, and didn't really care to debate firearms safety with the medical staff at the time (normally I'd probably talk more). After about the second question I sort of cut her off, and replied saying something to the effect of:

    "I'm a career law enforcement officer, a Colorado POST certified firearms instructor, I've competitively shot since college, and I've been shooting and handling guns for over 30 years (since I was five years old). My wife has Colorado POST certification, and her academy also included hundreds of hours of firearms training. Unless there's some reason that you believe that you have more expertise on this subject than we do, and need to share some of that wisdom with us at the moment, let's just get back to medical issues here."

    I've given a somewhat similar answer at a doctor's office one other time. Again, these seemed like canned questions, possibly provided by the medical facility itself. The surgeon who was working on my wife during the most recent surgery, as well as the doctor who was seeing me during the prior incident both seemed like they were pro-gun (actually, now that I think of it, the surgeon's office actually had Guns and Ammo and Outdoor Life magazines in the waiting room). But, the surgeon works with a hospital, and I'm sure the hospital gives the social workers and nurses these questions to ask, just like they were later asking my wife: "Do you feel like you're safe from violence at home?" That one was actually an even more uncomfortable question since I was sitting there with her at the time, wondering if they were somehow thinking I was a spousal abuser (my wife was there for cancer surgery and treatment, not due to a traumatic injury, which made the question even a bit more strange).
     
  18. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Nurse: "Do you own any firearms?"

    You: "I'm here for a ________." -or- "I'm not answering questions that aren't about _________." -or- "Stick to medical questions please." -or- "That's none of your business." -or- WHATEVER CLEVER RESPONSE YOU CAN THINK UP

    Nurse: (rolls eyes out of view, shakes head) Slips out, "Heh heh, um, ehem." (rolls eyes again). Says, "Okay, no problem". Then marks the 'yes' box and thinks to themselves, "Idiot, you think I haven't heard that before. Obviously you own guns".

    You: Thinking to yourself, "Heh, take that! See, I'm a genius, I got them all figured out. Goof grief am I awesome!"

    Nurse: Thinking to themselves, "Bravo, you flippin' dork, bravo."
     
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  19. loose noose

    loose noose Member

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    When I started wearing hearing aids I had to tell the audiologist that I shot trap, as he was trying to sell me behind the ear hearing aids, that would not fit in the cup of my hearing protection without discomfort. Therefore, I've had in the ear hearing aids ever since. BTW I've never had a medical professional ask me outright if I owned guns, although I've hunted and shot with doctors, and also repaired their firearms. Out here in Nevada and Arizona just about all walks of life own and use firearms
     
  20. Arizona_Mike

    Arizona_Mike Member

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    I see this is a 1st Amendment case not a 2nd.

    Mike
     
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  21. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

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    I guess it’s a little late for me to lie if my doctor ever asks if I own guns. I was out pheasant hunting on Thanksgiving morning, 2015. I slipped in the mud, fell, broke my right ankle in three places and put a spiral break up my right fibula. I figure my doctor, an orthopedic surgeon, some x-ray people, a couple of anesthesiologists, a physical therapist or two, a good many nurses and assorted hospital staff already know I own at least one gun. Either that, or they all figured I was into falconry.:)

    By the way – the orthopedic surgeon ordered me to bring him a couple of pheasants after I got healed up. He said that I owed him at least that much for getting him called away from his Thanksgiving dinner to pin my ankle back together.
     
  22. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Where are you located?
     
  23. Saddlebag Preacher

    Saddlebag Preacher Member

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    My wife and I went to the range after church last Sunday with my Doctor and his wife who is a nurse. I guess we're busted.
     
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  24. Arizona_Mike

    Arizona_Mike Member

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    I've taken an optic with me to the opthamologist so it's a little late for me too :)
     
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  25. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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