Federal Gun laws passed quickly

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Ryanxia, Jan 15, 2015.

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  1. thirty-ought-six

    thirty-ought-six member

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    Lol. Operation chokepoint is more than guns. It's designed to shut down the bank accounts of any shady outfits such as cable box descramblers, pornography, pay day loan sharks, etc.

    Obama didn't even come up with it, it was the DOJ.
     
  2. Field Tester

    Field Tester Member

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    You do know that he came out and openly admitted it right?
     
  3. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    I love how Holder slipped gun dealers in there without a) missing a beat and b) telling Obama.
     
  4. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    Then it's funny how legit businesses that deal in firearms and ammo somehow fell into the 'shady' category. It's almost like it was done on purpose by folks with a certain agenda in mind...
     
  5. thirty-ought-six

    thirty-ought-six member

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    The list of categories are for any category of business that has business conduction shady, immoral or downright illegal businesses.

    I know from first hand experience there are quite a few shady coin dealers, I had a hand in shutting down a local one that was constantly travelling town to town, and writing bad checks.

    Other venues such as prostitutes, pawn shops, pay day loan lenders, etc, all have been caught with business operating illegally.

    The whole idea of Operation Chokehold is to prevent money laundering in business where buying from criminals can take place, or to prevent shady business from ripping people off.


    While I admit indeed there has been some operations of OP-CH that were not very "right", it is has indeed help shut down businesses conducting illegal transactions that banks otherwise turned a blind eye to.
     
  6. Drail

    Drail Member

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    They can pass all of the laws they want, but Obammy still has his all powerful executive orders you know. He's the King.
     
  7. Warp

    Warp Member

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    How long have you been a gun owner?

    Edit: Browsing your posts indicates you bought your first rifle 10 days ago (a .22lr), prior to that your only firearm was a gifted single shot 20 gauge shotgun you hadn't fired for 3 years. Is this correct?

    Did the "NRA fear mongering" drive you to buying that first rifle?

    I'm trying to figure out what makes you think the NRA is all about hysteria and fear and driving gun sales.
     
  8. Warp

    Warp Member

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    You mean other than Obama himself saying it on national television, at times while urging Congress to pass gun control laws?

    Do you have any idea at all what you are talking about? :confused:
     
  9. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    That's my point. I don't dispute the shutting down of illegal transactions, but mixing legitimate firearms and ammo transactions into that is ludicrous. There is no way that one of the most heavily regulated businesses in the country should fall under that. I'm pretty sure that the sellers of 'illegal guns' don't worry about credit card processing.
     
  10. Tcruse

    Tcruse Member

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    'fear mongering' by the NRA - OK, I keep hearing this from gun control groups, however, I never seem to exactly see any evidence of the NRA do such things, they bring up issues (as the members want them to do) and give analysis of the issues and "lobby" NRA members, congressmen, and citizens at large to take their side on the issues. How exactly are they "fear mongering"?
    Now, lets look at Everytown/MDA where they produce "studies" that claim we have major public health crisis in accidental shootings. Recently, they claimed that the terriorst attack in France would have killed more people if the citizens would have been armed. The idea that gun in the home will increases your chances of being killed by 30%. The Georgia "guns everywhere" was going to cause "blood to run in the streets".
    So, exactly who is fear mongering? Was it not "fear mongering" the exact approach that got I-594 passed?
     
  11. Warp

    Warp Member

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    I'm not sure what you are referring to here...although I'm sure it's a thing certain groups did...but I'm also here to tell you that Georgia in NO way shape or form has "guns everywhere". There are plenty of states with far less restrictive carry laws than Georgia.
     
  12. s4s4u

    s4s4u Member

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    Pull your head out of the sand, or your ass, whichever!
     
  13. thirty-ought-six

    thirty-ought-six member

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    The NRA in the past has put out some very uncredible news articles that have been based upon things that were either totally non-verifiable or sketchy at best that were very fear mongering and put people in fear of things that would never happen or very least likely to happen.

    However besides that the NRA is a fine organisation, but I don't think it's proper to make people afraid of a million what-ifs.

    It's no different than yelling fire in a crowded theater.



    I'm by no means an "anti"; while there are very legitimate concerns that involve gun rights being reduced, a lot of people deny there is another extreme side of the spectrum where people spin things such as sketchy news articles or complete untruths to drive paranoia into the minds of people.

    It then goes from a legitimate gun rights issue into a conspiracy theory of the tin-foil hat crowd.


    While there are a crap load of conspiracy theories, it seems quite a few gun owners believe anything on the internet without taking the time to actually verify or fact check it.

    I guess you would call other side of the spectrum across from "antis" as "gun nuts". People who posses extreme paranoia about gun rights and let any phoney blog convince them of things that are complete lies.
     
  14. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Examples?
     
  15. thirty-ought-six

    thirty-ought-six member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/opinion/02tue3.html?_r=0


    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/04/_80_percent_of_police_oppose_background_checks_no_the_nra_is_lying.html


    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/nra-gets-caught-lying-again

     
  16. thirty-ought-six

    thirty-ought-six member

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    As I said the NRA is a fine .org and is made of many members, some of which like to "fib".

    I'm on the site almost every day, and sometimes I see stuff that should be on the cover of a drugstore tabloid.
     
  17. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Your primary source is an opinion letter in the editorial section of the new york times, on the topic of the NRA?

    PLEASE tell me you are joking/trolling.
     
  18. thirty-ought-six

    thirty-ought-six member

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    These are a couple examples, not necessarily the best ones.

    The NRA among with tons of companies have been caught in a lie a time or two, the sad thing is a lot of people will believe them.
     
  19. Warp

    Warp Member

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    You ought to very seriously reconsider everything you are doing, and everything you believe to be true, if you are drawing from opinion letters in the new york times on anything at all relating to firearms or the NRA or politics (or probably anything else).

    I certainly wouldn't log in to a forum like THR and pretend to tell us how it is because of a 6 year old opinion letter in the NYT.

    You come off as either a troll or somebody planted from the DU.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  20. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    I will now ignore 30-06 as a troll and possible plant.

    The three worst possible sources for anything related to the US Constitution, let alone the 2nd Amendment.
     
  21. thirty-ought-six

    thirty-ought-six member

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    Ok warp, let's have it your way.

    As I said, I am not stating the NRA is a organisation full of lies (can't say the same for the US gov.).

    But..the NRA has in fact published a lie or two.


    If I can cite several resources that discredit what the NRA said about police background checks, go out and find, or rather prove, that they are in fact correct, from resources other than the NRA.

    Clock's ticking..
     
  22. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    I've seen more false rhetoric and emotion based drivel come from anti's FAR more than anything I've seen from the NRA. When the anti's say nonsense like 'machine guns need to be off the streets' and 'military grade weapons of today are away more powerful than blah blah blah...', those are totally, flagrantly, misleading statements, designed to evoke emotional responses, leading to oppressive legislation. Those are just a couple of examples. We've all heard the nonsense spewed by them.

    If the NRA says anything, their every word is parsed ad nauseum until it's made to look like they are flat out lying. For instance, some article in the past freaked out over the use of the phrase 'Obama's gun ban agenda'. Their 'point' was:

    'Obama is not trying to seize guns already owned by Americans. He supports reinstating the 1994 assault weapons ban, but that's a position he's held for many years.'

    Really?! Seriously?! Oh, well I guess that's OK then, that's not technically a gun ban agenda at all, since it's not ALL guns.

    Wow.

    The NRA may play to emotions, but not nearly to the point that the anti's do. And you know what, that's ok by me, if it gets people involved in preserving their rights. The worst I've seen the NRA do comes nowhere close to the straight up nonsensical 'shoulder thing that goes up use up magazines after one use military grade gun show machine gun loophole' nonsense that the anti's do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015
  23. Field Tester

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    Was this a full thought or was there supposed to be more at the end of the last paragraph? Seems like you left something off.
     
  24. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    What you cited were opinion pieces written by strident anti-gun writers for an strident anti-gun newspaper that follows the Democratic party strident anti-gun agenda.

    That's hardly a credible 'resource'. Kinda like citing Wikipedia or quoting Piers Morgan.

    If you call a few misleading articles or opinions given by the NRA 'fear-mongering" then what, exactly, do you call the misleading articles or opinions given by MDA or other Bloomberg financed activist groups? We're still waiting for you to cite an actual credible source regarding the 'fear-mongering' of the NRA.
     
  25. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    We can debate what constitutes a "lie" until the Internet shuts down from lack of bandwidth. What the difference is, is usually largely a matter of perspective and then taken to another level by rhetoric. Like, the Republicans were trying to starve the elderly when funds in future budgets weren't increased.

    Wrap your head around that - budget cuts given up are often the projected increase, not the actual numbers from last year. And yet the wrangling over what constitutes a cut goes on. Perspective and spin.

    As for Obama not doing anything, he largely CAN'T, having Executive Order power is the most overrated thing fearmongers throw up. What he does exercise is authority to direct the agencies that supposedly "protect" our freedoms. Case in point, the recent reversal on the legal use of the SIG brace. It's been entirely Ok for the last two years, businesses have been selling them, the groundwork laid out on what it legal and what isn't. With SHOT Show 2015 scheduled for a Monday start, the ATF puts out a letter reversing all previous determinations on a Friday afternoon when nobody has to answer questions all weekend.

    Cheap political stunt. It throws doubt into the legality of buying or possessing the brace, and the ATF knows exactly how many guns and braces are being shown to the buying market at that convention. They did it to stick a wrench into the sales of Braces, and with the recent huge downturn in stamp applications for SBR's, it's obvious that buyers are going the brace route rather than apply for a $200 expense.

    That's the kind of cheap politics this Administration IS actively engaged in, saying "nothing is going on" just points out someone has their head in the sand and isn't even trying to be aware. If the stories aren't in the national media, maybe it's time to quit watching the officially sanctioned US news and get tuned into real journalism that discusses facts, not the spin of the day.

    As for Operation Choke Point, there were a few gun stores and dealers who have seemingly suffered withdrawal of credit, but that happens every year anyway. The analysis here in threads has pointed out some businesses aren't well managed, and just because you sell guns it doesn't mean you are very good at it. Guns aren't an automatic pass to financial solvency, like any other business you have to buy low, sell high, and pay your employees. The ones in question don't seem to exhibit all the qualities of an ongoing business with great credit - and if you are in the gun business financing a floor plan for merchandise with a bank, I doubt how long you will stay in business.

    Operaton Choke Point does seem to be more fearmongering, but then we'd have to debate what constitutes perception of a healthy business. And for some that's not a two way street. It involves thinking rather than rabble rousing to expand their ego.
     
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