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Federal's New Catalyst Lead Free Primer

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by ReloaderFred, Mar 15, 2018.

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  1. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    Here's a picture of Federal's new primer: https://federalpremium.com/products/premium-technologies-handgun.aspx Just scroll down the page until you get to the comparison pictures.

    It's not available for reloaders, but look at the difference in the flame between Lead Styphnate and Catalyst. Quite impressive! They also mention that it's non-hygroscopic, so I'm wondering if that's been a problem with the DDNP Non-Toxic primers?

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
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  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Very interesting Fred.
     
  3. Jack B.

    Jack B. Member

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    Looks like a bite more flash. Maybe a good magnum primer.
     
  4. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    Impressive flash. Wonder if it will require loads to be reduced?
     
  5. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    You have to back to the cartridge case, the flash hole is much larger in diameter with the new type of primers.
    The larger hole is needed because of duration of the burning primer compound.
    A standard primer has primer compound that produces more burning particles when it fire's.
    A magnum primer has even more burning particles that are driven into the powder charge.
     
  6. Offfhand

    Offfhand Member

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    Flash doe not necessarily equal heat. Look at photos carefully, the lead primer looks hotter.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, and I would love to know how "hot" these are in comparison to Lead Styphnate. A milder primer that sets powder off as well or better would be a good thing in my mind.
     
  8. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    At the present time, they're only offering this primer in their "range ammunition", so my uneducated guess is they're going to try to prove the concept with ammunition that is used in a relatively safe environment to make sure it works, before offering it in defense ammunition. At least, that's my thought.

    They just received a pretty large contract from the Navy for .40 S&W training ammunition, with frangible bullets, that will be loaded with the Catalyst primers. I'm sure they'll get feedback from that contract to either point out problems or to prove that it works in actual use, in addition to their own in house testing.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
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  9. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    Thank you for sharing, it's good to see technology like this being tried. Hopefully, it performs well and would be a great substitute, especially for indoor ranges where lead exposure is a concern.
     
  10. spitballer

    spitballer Member

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    ...that's a fact jag and from what I understand the compatibility of those flash holes with standard primers is still being debated. If it's decided that they're not compatible then I hope a different diameter or some other safety mechanism is implemented, sooner rather than later.
     
  11. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    If these primers become industry standard, expect to have to separate your brass, as you do with small primer 45 ACP and large primer 45ACP.

    I read up on the amount of elemental lead that primers put in the air, while huge compared to OSHA standards, cast bullets put even more lead particles. OSHA probably has changed its standards, but 80 micro grams per cubic meter of air was the upper limit. The number has probably gone down.

    cFdtyUT.jpg

    But, you can buy plated bullets, but you still can't buy lead free primers. Getting the lead out of the air is a good thing as there should be zero lead in a human body. The lead that is there was produced by human industry and products.
     
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  12. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    I'm by no means a chicken little when it comes to being scared of lead, but its good that our industry is working on these things. I hate to think of having to have different primer sizes though.
     
  13. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I am going to say, when it comes to lead, be a chicken little.

    Lead Poisoning --Valuable Health Information
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=307170

    Lead Safety: Or we have met the enemy, and he is us.
    By: John Cox

    http://www.lasc.us/LeadSafety.htm

    LEAD POISONING – It can happen to you! By Jens Heider

    http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Heider/LeadHazards.htm

    This one is very inflammatory: Shooters confuse the toxic lead environment at indoor ranges, with liberty and the right to own firearms. Be aware and be afraid of indoor ranges with inadequate ventilation, and don't go forward of the firing line to pick up brass. You will be picking up lead in your lungs.

    Loaded with Lead
    http://projects.seattletimes.com/2014/loaded-with-lead/1/
     
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  14. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

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    I'm all for lead free primers, but the pics are taken from different angles and zoom is different. I wouldn't compare the flame by the picture.
     
  15. Toprudder

    Toprudder Member

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    Just out of curiosity, I tried finding some lead free primers a while back and could not find any for sale.
     
  16. sbwaters
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    sbwaters Contributing Member

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    I want cleaner loads, but I can wait until I don’t have to sort cases by primer hole size.
     
  17. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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  18. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    Lead free primers sound good, BUT will we have to go back to the era of potassium chlorate?

    Going through a cleaning process that includes a soap and water wash to remove the salts of the priming compounds.

    Also what do the new compounds do to the brass case? Remember (some do) mercury based primers, one firing and cartridge case's
    were junk!
     
  19. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    From my studies, the US Government, that is the Military, created a joint primer program and published a series of reports in 1959. They were all titled Standardization of Lead Styphnate Primers, Priming Mixtures and Processes

    The 1st report dealt with Thermochemical Properties of various priming mixtures

    There were at least eight reports. The development program they outline, which proved that the lead styphanate primer compound was stable, yet predictable, manufacturable, was thoughtful and well designed. Mind you, this is when the Government had some in house expertise on ammunition and firearms. Today, the so called "Technical Experts" are merely those guys who could not get a job in industry, and whose real expertise is Contract Management. They have to pay industry experts to think for them, so called "Support Contractors".

    But, there were other primer formulations that were under consideration, and for various reasons, were inferior to lead styphanate in some fashion. Since then, lead in the air has been finally acknowledged as a real health problem. The old chlorate primers were good in so far as stability, sensitivity, manufacturability, ignition in hot and cold, but they had one problem: rust! Any primer that causes that last problem won't be accepted by anyone. We will see how this shakes out
     
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  20. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    Years ago a guy I worked with called "Support Contractors"
    engineering by rolodex!!
    So the Technical Experts sat on their back side and let their fingers do the walking.

    That does not solve the indoor lead problem. But I do know many of the new ranges have very well
    designed air handling systems with many air changes during shooting.
     
  21. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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  22. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    I have read the article and it seems that Federal has changed the laws of physics!

    Years ago when moly coated bullets were all the rage and in use, powder charges had to be increased to maintain bullet speed.
    The moly coating was so slippery bullet passage down the bore was easier, it seems that Federal has overcome
    that problem.
    Also look up the word 'catalyst" , what is the catalyst in this ammunition?

    I think much of the advanced ammunition is the brain child of a New York ad man!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  23. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Polymer/powder-coated bullets have been "the rage" in action/practical handgun shooting for the last 3-5 years (long before Federal came out with this line of ammo... the big manufacturers are very late to the party). Lots of shooters like them because they can reduce their powder charges slightly and still hit the required PF (momentum calculation) compared to jacketed or plated. Federal didn't invent that, nor did some ad man.
     
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  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    And longer across the pond.
     
  25. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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