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FEG Hi-Power 9mm (questions/clarifications)

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Critical J, Oct 19, 2013.

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  1. Critical J

    Critical J Member

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    So, in looking into options concerning affordable double-stack 9mm, it wasn't long before I found the Hi-Power style quite appealing and the old FEG's are particularly attention grabbing, if everything I've read is correct. I know they feel great in my hand, that much is for sure!
    [​IMG]

    I've seen a few other threads on the issue, but none that quite narrowed it down for me; I know there are a handful of different models, but say that I'm looking for the closest, most reliable Hungarian Hi-Power clone to the original single-action Browning, what exact model do I need to be asking for at the gun shop? These guys are all "go big or go home" but I ain't got $1,200 to blow on a pistol being stowed in a hurricane bag...

    Some have mentioned Pee-Wee's "Decoding the Hi-Power" or something, but the link seems to be malfunctioning or the blog removed, whatever - that ring any bells?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  2. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    The FEG rendition of the Hi-Power is pretty good for the money.
    Usually known as the "Hungarian Hi-Power."
    Model PJK-9HP
    Example at http://www.guntechtips.com/feg/feg.htm

    I had one that had a beautiful blue finish.
    Downside is a blued finish is more susceptible to damage than the stainless or polymer finish seen on many current-manufacture "real" Hi-Powers these days.

    Cosmetically, FEG dropped the ball badly on the execution of the "hog-nose" front end of the slide.
    Here is an example (and mine looked even rougher).

    [​IMG]

    There are lots of surplus real Hi-Power re-imports on the market now.
    ...and speaking of Hi-Power muzzles I got one that I surmise spent some time in service of the French.
    (only dropped once)

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Tolkachi Robotnik

    Tolkachi Robotnik Member

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    Cheapest is SAR B6P

    It is not a BHP though. It is a development off of the Tanfoglio, that is a development off the CZ 75, that is a development off the BHP. It looks about the same from the top, must be manually decocked if not fired, has about the same dimensions of sights, holds 13 in the magazine (the compact with 3.8 inch barrel), but after that the similarities pretty much end. The SAR B6P is a double action to single action. It has no magazine disconnect. I would guess the name and style was purposefully made to match closely the old BHP, B6P versus BHP especially handwritten?

    Price is about $300. You could get three of them for the price of a new BHP. They fit well in the hand and conjure up the same image. You asked for the least expense. The Hungarian BHP by FEG can be very good or not. They usually run much less than a true BHP, less than half the new price. If used it depends on condition, but most would cost more than a new SAR B6P.
     
  4. Critical J

    Critical J Member

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    @ Tolkachi Robotnik

    "cheap" is not the primary concern, I'm looking for long term reliability, I can afford a slightly more expensive firearm easier than I can afford a lemon. Still though, affordability is second to that...

    So, how's this SAR B6P in the ruggedness category?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  5. Critical J

    Critical J Member

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    @ Tolkachi Robotnik

    - deleted -
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  6. Tolkachi Robotnik

    Tolkachi Robotnik Member

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    Haven't had one long enough to tell how rugged. Seems solid enough.

    They have a year warranty. They have a low center of slide gravity that causes a strong solid feel on recoil, and little upward muzzle flip. They drop empties in a tight circle not very far away from the shooter. They tend to cycle with no stovepipes or abnormalities, both in my experience and reports I've read.

    On negatives I've heard hearsay: EAA the importer is not RCBS for customer service. The pistols come with one magazine, the next is $36. The outer finish is not durable. The case it came in had a plastic soft finish that seems to react with the finish of the pistol or at least stick to it, don't store yours in that blue plastic box without wrapping it in something.

    This is the small frame version based on older patents. The larger frame has a newer but better reputation with multiple top frames possible but a higher price.
     
  7. MrDig

    MrDig Member

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    Feg pjk-9hp

    This is the FEG Hi-Power other FEG 9mm pistols are not HP clones but HP "like"
    I have the PJK-9HP and they are good guns for the money
    There may be some parts interchangeability but not on all parts if I remember correctly.
    My PJK is a little rough compared to my Mk III but that is to be expected.
    In my opinion the Argentine "FM" Hi-Powers are a little better finished than the FEG but that is only my opinion many might disagree with it.

    Stephen A Camps website is choc full of great information.
    http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/index.html

    Here is the Blog site about the FEG Specifically
    http://feghp.blogspot.com/

    I tested the links in a preview so they should work
     
  8. Stringfellow

    Stringfellow Member

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    The only consideration is that FEG did not label their HP's consistently: some with the same model numbers are essentially BHP clones, and others are BHP-inspired DA/SA pistols that copied the S&W59 internally. The best way to tell is to look for the oval crossbar seam directly above the trigger (visible in the original post).

    Assuming it is a true HP clone, ALL parts are interchangeable. Some parts may need some fitting, but that can be said for actual BHPs too. The only difference I have seen when directly comparing the two is that the frame at the handle is actually a smidgen wider on the FEG. I don't know if this makes it effectively stronger, but my finger groove Hogue grips still fit regardless.

    The FEG is a bit rougher finished--but usually not unless you really take the time to look. Mine needed a bit of dehorning, there were a few tool marks in places, and the bluing was uneven in a few areas. But hell, I could have gotten a B-stock for all I know. I am certainly not complaining for the ~$200 I spent on it around 3 years ago.

    Some FEGs are actually extremely well finished. The Charles Daly versions usually were. My father has a few FEGS, 2 of which exceed the finish on his BHP.

    It takes literally 5 minutes to remove the magazine brake, which results in an excellent trigger.

    Someone posted a link to JayPee's Blogspot link. That really contains all you need to know about the FEG.

    If I were starting a collection, I would not hesitate to buy a FEG as my sole pistol. If I were selling off my collection, it would probably be the last pistol I would sell. My rationale is that although the pistol is one of my sweetest, most accurate, most reliable shooters I own, it's low resale value would not be worth it to me unless I were down to my last penny--e.g., I could sell some of my other pistols for 4-figures, yet probably still only get under $300 for this one.

    Use this underappreciation to your advantage--there aren't many such situations out there in the world of firearms...
     
  9. Critical J

    Critical J Member

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    @ Stringfellow

    an "oval crossbar seam" huh? So, if I'm looking then that's what I would WANT to see there or I should avoid any gun that has that feature? Like you said, the top photo does have it...
     
  10. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

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    Short answer: YES...you DO want to see the Cam. The Cam indicates the FN BHP locking system v. the FEG modified M59 system which has no cam. The Cam is press fit...FN uses the term "riveted", in the Receiver, machined flush, polished and finished...sometimes so well the seam is difficult to see. BTW, FEG also built a BHP look alike that, though it used the FN BHP Barrel Lug/Cam locking system, used a different Slide Stop (w/out the front "lobe") and a corresponding Slide.

    Incidentally, FEG designated the FN BHP, part for part, "clone" pistol the P9, but then proceeded to apply numerous names/brands to the P9, including outright counterfeits of the FN...slide legend and even FN "proofs" to the same pistol. The PJK-9HP is actually an importers designation for the original FEG P9. The pictured FEG w/ the rib is a PF9.....
     
  11. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

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    Oh...the FEG blog you've mentioned was done by "JayPee" and was posted free for years but recently he and an associate took it to some kind of electronic book form...the fee is nominal though.

    AND...if you want a REAL, quality FN BHP pistol, especially to stuff in a "Go-Bag"...for whatever purpose ;), I'd suggest having a look on GB for cdisales (Cole's Distributors). Gary Cole has sold hundreds of surplus...mostly Israeli, FN BHP pistols over the past few years. You can get an all original, early '90s, forged frame, re-finished (Phosphate), no Firing Pin Safety, MkIII FN BHP for under $500. The MkIII BTW, is the current design which has the desirable MkII features that were carried over to the MkIII, such as a hollowpoint friendly feedramp, extended Ambi-Thumb Safety" and nylon/plastic grips as well as the MkIII "improved" Ejection Port AND very usable...and easily changed if you are of a mind, fixed sights, dovetailed front and rear.

    FWIW, I'm not sure why I mention Cole's, it just increases the competition over pistols I'd like to buy ;). AND...I have no affiliation what-so-ever with them, other than as a plain old GB customer...who's purchased "several" of their FN BHP pistols :cool::D.
     
  12. jstein650

    jstein650 Member

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    I had one of the PJK-9HP's years ago, and wish I had held on to it. I got in new and it was very inexpensive. Accuracy was good, and it even shot cast bullets well, with very little leading which was really nice. I put on an extended safety - almost a must - and removed the magazine safety which greatly improved the trigger pull. Shoulda' kept that one.
     
  13. Critical J

    Critical J Member

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    @ jstein650

    That's what I keep hearing, "Why did I ever sell that gun?!"

    So, what's this mag safety everyone says to remove? I understand it can improve the trigger, but is there some trade-off in functionality upon removing it? I was all revolvers this time 3-months ago, have no idea what y'all are referring to...
     
  14. MrDig

    MrDig Member

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    No Function disadvantage.
    The Magazine safety prevents the gun from firing if the magazine is not in the gun.
    Removing it has a huge effect on the trigger pull and helps the magazines to come clear of the mag well more readily. Also the gun will fire if there is a round in the chamber and no magazine in the gun.
    If you follow the 4 rules and keep your finger off the trigger all is well.
     
  15. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

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    The MDS is a flat faced plunger that's spring loaded and protrudes from its position within the rear of the trigger into the magazine well where it pushes against a seated magazine allowing the trigger mechanism to function. When there's NOT a magazine in place the plunger has nothing to push against which "disconnects" the trigger mechanism preventing the hammer from falling via trigger action.

    With "Classic" BHP pistols...v. MkII and later pistols, the MDS can be removed by driving out the small solid pin in the trigger. This allows the MDS plunger, and it's coil spring to be removed from the trigger cut inside the front/top of the magazine well. Later production BHPs almost always require one to drive out the actual trigger pin that the trigger levers in the frame.

    Removing the MDS reduces the actual pull weight of the trigger by eliminating the MDS coil spring. The trigger is smoothed by elimination of the friction caused by both the flat face of the plunger rubbing against the front of the magazine body and the shaft of the plunger rubbing within the trigger. BTW, if you remove the MDS, leave the pin OUT as evidence that the MDS is gone.

    There can be a downside to removing the MDS though...some individual triggers, may not reset properly due to spring balance/tolerance issues.
     
  16. bainter1212

    bainter1212 Member

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  17. il.bill
    • Contributing Member

    il.bill Member

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    See Posts #7 and #8

    MrBig and Stringfellow have the information you need in Posts 7 & 8.

    If you see the oval barrel locking cam you have a FEG made in the original Browning design. The magazine safety is not that big of a deal to me after doing a little polishing on the shoe that rubs on the magazine. If the mag safety is in place I leave it there - if it is already gone, that is fine with me also.

    I have four Hi Power design pistols that I purchased used for $300 -$500. One is an FN from Coles Distr. The other three were made by FEG: an FEG PJK-9HP (currently out of commission - waiting for a new extractor, available from Browning), a Luger M80, and a Mauser 80SA.

    They feel marvelous in hand and point and shoot as well as any semi-auto handgun I own. If I found another in nice shape at a good price I would jump on it if my finances allowed at the time.
     
  18. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

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    Critical J:
    Your original question: “what exact model” is “the closest...Hungarian Hi-Power clone to the original single-action Browning" is not quite as simple as some would have you believe. I attempted to make that point earlier, gently...apparently too gently. I’ll be more direct…

    PJK-9HP does not necessarily indicate “the closest...Hungarian Hi-Power clone to the original single-action Browning" as has been opined. PJK-9HP started as the US importer designation for the original FEG P9...the original, part for part, clone of the FN BHP. FWIW, PJK stands for Pamela Jane Kassnar, the wife of the importer Michael Kassnar, owner of KBI...it was not originally an FEG designation. FEG later marked PJK-9HP on their P9 pistols that were not even Kassnar imports, as well as the "almost" BHP "clone" I described earlier…the original FEG P9M, the one that uses the P9/BHP Lug/Cam but a different Slide Stop and correspondingly different Slide. FEG even went on to use PJK-9HP for their later P9M, the SA...not SA/DA, pistol that uses the modified M59 locking system. You'll note Stringfellow pointed out "FEG did not label their HP's consistently"…I subsequently mentioned the same convoluted labeling situation.

    As far as identification of an FEG BHP clone by the Cam: "look for the oval crossbar (Cam) seam directly above the trigger"...is the best way to START. Having identified the Cam, one must also look to the Slide Stop and Slide cut to determine if they are in fact FN BHP pattern or the abbreviated FEG P9M versions...if one wants “the closest...Hungarian Hi-Power clone to the original single-action Browning".

    FEG original P9M ("almost" BHP "clone") manual. Note the BHP Cam:

    [​IMG]

    FEG original P9M ("almost" BHP "clone")…slide marked PJK-9HP, Note: Cam and abbreviated FEG Slide Stop and Slide:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  19. Critical J

    Critical J Member

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    Maybe this is my fault for having trouble following all this, but I feel like we're getting close here, so let me ask it a different way:

    "Which gun is 100%
    parts transferable
    with the original
    Browning Hi-Power?"

    That is what I'm looking for.
     
  20. PabloJ

    PabloJ Member

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    I would rather have that then the Argentinean clunker. Not long ago I almost "pulled a trigger" on Smith & Wessonish .45ACP version of that. Actually very nicely put together firearm.
     
  21. Outlaw Man

    Outlaw Man Member

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    Critical, the PJK-9HP, the one you have pictured, is as 100% parts transferrable as any. Some parts will require minor fitting, as said before.

    The one exception is that they didn't have a firing pin block like the new HPs, so the sear lever will need to have that block removed, or I'm sure a good gunsmith could cut yours for it.

    FWIW, I have both and actually enjoy shooting the FEG more. I have some sentimental attachment, though.
     
  22. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

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    Critical J, . . . is the FEG in the OP yours? That is an incredibly nice example of one of the more rare FEG Hi Power clones.
     
  23. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

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    Critical J:

    It's NOT you, folks here are trying to be helpful...they either just don't know themselves or are confused and trying to simplify that which is...due to FEG's lack of consistency in naming/numbering models, just not simple.

    There is one thing here that IS simple: Just using an FEG model name/number to choose a "gun (that) is 100% parts transferable with the original Browning Hi-Power?" will NOT assure you of getting a "gun (that) is 100% parts transferable with the original Browning Hi-Power?".


    Look at the bottom 2 pics I posted last night. Obviously, that pistol has the Cam...meaning it uses the FN BHP locking system you are looking for. BUT, you'll also notice that the Slide is cut differently than a BHP, this to accommodate the...also quite obvious, abbreviated FEG Slide Stop. It is NOT a "gun (that) is 100% parts transferable with the original Browning Hi-Power?". That pistol was originally designated the P9M by FEG...the same as is pictured on the FEG manual in my 1st. pic of last night, yet that pistol itself is plainly marked PJK-9HP :banghead:, and I already explained where the PJK-9HP came from.

    To confuse things even more, FEG later developed a SA pistol that outwardly looks like an FN BHP...with the FEG Slide and abbreviated FEG Slide Stop though, as pictured last night, BUT with a completely different locking system modeled after the S&W M59...and proceeded to name/number it the same P9M :eek:...just like the pistol described above :banghead:.

    The only way to assure you are getting a "gun (that) is 100% parts transferable with the original Browning Hi-Power?" is to look for the FEG name/number P9 and/or PJK-9HP AND inspect the pistol for the Cam AND be sure the Slide is cut for...and it's fitted with the FN BHP Slide Stop as pictured below:

    You’ve seen the Cam, here’s the correct Slide cut:
    [​IMG]

    Here’s the correct Slide Stop:
    [​IMG]

    Compare these pics with the pics I posted last night…

    In other words you want this:
    [​IMG]

    And NOT this:
    [​IMG]

    In spite of BOTH being marked PJK-9HP :banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
  24. Storm

    Storm Member

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    A quick recommendation. Change the recoil spring in any FEG, especially an older one. I have heard that the Hungarian springs can be a bit underpowered. I was amazed how much so when I replaced mine with a Wolf's standard power spring.

    BTW, as someone who knows a bit about FEGs I have to say that overall this thread is full of very good information.
     
  25. Critical J

    Critical J Member

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    @ sub-moa
    Alright, I appreciate you holding my hand w/ this one. I think I've got enough to take to the gun store guy now, but I wouldn't dare buy online with all these various factors in play. The three available at my local spot are your "not this" picture, one with a safety on the slide and one labeled "Mauser" + there was one with a lanyard ring at the bottom, but I think it sold. I take it those are all a NO GO, huh?

    @ Outlaw Man/Orion8472
    Nah, fellas - that beauty belongs to the Houndstooth Kid. Infact, it was his article that convinced me to track one down, so feel free to leave a comment there since you don't have to join any forums, seems like a cool guy:

    http://mrlapel.blogspot.com/2012/11/firearms-browning-hi-power-via-feg.html?m=1
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
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