Felons and guns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by crazysquirrel, Jan 10, 2016.

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  1. crazysquirrel

    crazysquirrel Member

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    Yesterday I ran across a guy who's underage daughter had so called 'kiddie porn'. Most likely it was a naked selfie but I dunno.

    He got charged with 2 felonies, and convicted, because of his daughter's indiscretions.

    Now he is barred from having a gun. And loss of other rights too.

    Do you think that all felons should be barred from their 'creator endowed' or constitutional rights?

    Personally I think that law needs to be fixed. He didn't do anything but got punished for someone else's misdeeds.

    IMHO if someone is so bad you cannot trust them with guns, then WHY are they still loose in society?

    Or just save felony charges for the most extreme (aka violent) offenders while 'nonperson' felonies are reduces to misdemeanors with no loss of rights.

    We have far too many laws that are felonies instead of misdemeanors.

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. Joshboyfutre

    Joshboyfutre Member

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    I think we as a society are too hard on people that are felons. I think if its a non violent offender once they've served their time then that should be it, instead of one mistake following a person around for the rest of their life.
     
  3. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Sounds like he needed a better lawyer in the courtroom.
     
  4. crazysquirrel

    crazysquirrel Member

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    How about limiting felonies to high crimes like it was supposed to be?

    Any more you can commit a felony and not even know it, then lose your guns rights almost for life.

    Some states will restore rights after a certain time lapse and but never for federal crimes.

    I believe that you are correct that no one should be punished forever for a mistake or seemingly minor offense.

    It goes back to my statement that if someone is so bad they shouldn't have their rights then why are they loose among the rest of us? This included the extreme mentally ill as well.

    It strongly appears that most felonies are there just to take away gun rights and little more.

    Surely there must be something the people can do to fix this unreasonable loss of rights.
     
  5. crazysquirrel

    crazysquirrel Member

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    Not so much the lawyer that is needed but the amount of money needed to 'fix' the problem.

    It's all about money right?
     
  6. hatt

    hatt member

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    Felons being barred makes a lot of gun owners feel better about themselves for some reason. For thinking individuals, they realize that .gov permanently taking away your Rights for trivial matters was going to be problematic. And it shows. Now it's extended to misdemeanor offenses and simple court protective orders. Never mind that most felons are so dangerous they served no jail time at all. On deck we have people being reported by doctors for some issue. Once you're out of jail and off probation/parole you should have full Rights.
     
  7. hatt

    hatt member

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    Yep. It's the Justice Industry and it makes a lot of money for millions of people.
     
  8. crazysquirrel

    crazysquirrel Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly. But I think another issue would be to stop making most crimes into felonies.

    At least as a minimum, they felons could actually get a job.

    Most employers will not hire a felon. They are forever stuck in a life of poverty.

    If someone 'pays their debt to society' they why are they still paying for the rest of their life?

    How can we get the laws changed to downgrade crimes to misdemeanors and restore feons gun rights in the process?

    Writing my representative is like talking to a mirror lol
     
  9. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

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    The views expressed are my own . . . Anyone who is a felon as a result of a non-violent crime that did not DIRECTLY impact an individual. For example, someone found guilty of stealing the life savings of a retiree should not only lose many of their civil rights but also should have their left hand chopped of. Someone convicted of drag racing (depending on State) shouldn't be barred from gun ownership for the rest of their lives. Crap like the one described in the OP (if true in that situation) makes me shake my head in disgust.

    The longer I live the less I want to have anything to do with most people, especially lawyers, judges, prosecutors, politicians, cops, clergy, & those who pontificate their righteousness.
     
  10. ACP

    ACP Member

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    yes, this "thinking individual" believes all felons should lose the limited right that the general public has to carry a firearm.
     
  11. crazysquirrel

    crazysquirrel Member

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    While I tend to agree over the punishment, said punishment will not restore the losses incurred.

    That kind of crime is a 'High Crime' and they shouldn't ever get out of jail.

    If memory serves me a felony carried only two punishments - loss of your assets or death.

    I read this was Old English Common Law.

    How about let the punishment fit the crime?

    And once all debts are repaid full restoration of one's rights should be in order?

    You swindle retirees out of their life savings then you should have to repay that in full with interest.

    About drag racing. There are other nonperson felonies that need to be downgraded. Like fleeing an officer for one (assuming you only committed a misdemeanor).

    Some places simple possession of Pot is a felony (Kentucky comes to mind). Regardless of the amount. Should someone busted for that when 18 still lose their rights at say 35?

    And about felonies - if you did that in Ky (a felony) would you lose your gun rights in say Colorado or another state?

    Too much access is given to criminal records IMHO. And resulting discrimination.

    Gun rights are not civil rights. They are rights granted by our creator and summarized in the Constitution.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  12. midland man

    midland man Member

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    well the 2nd amendment says shall not be infringed well that means just that! so all these so called laws are infringments against the 2nd amendment and need to be thrown out!!!
     
  13. crazysquirrel

    crazysquirrel Member

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    Prior to 1934 there really weren't many gun laws. Then the government ignored the 2nd amendment...repeatedly.

    1934, 1968, brady bills I & II, et al.

    The ATF is supposed to be a convenient store....

    If it were then we would have less crime, lower prices, a more polite society, more tax revenue for state coffers, etc.


    The 1934 gun law was aimed at stopping the Mob's.
    The 1968 was solely engineered to prevent African Americans (mostly) from getting guns in retaliation to the civil rights act. Both are actually racist laws.

    Brady bills were bleeding heart efforts to 'protect women and children'.

    All those instead of fixing the problems just created more problems and made otherwise non criminals into worse criminals.

    There was a good show on last night about ghost guns. Felons couldn't get guns (ahem) legally so the market popped up for ghost guns (knock-offs of the 1911 in particular) with fake serial numbers and are essentially untraceable.

    Every one of those were hand made from scratch and imported into California.

    They had a reasonable price of just over $100 and each step the price doubled. Once in the USA it went up significantly to over $2K.

    Just for people to have their rights that were illegally revoked.

    Other ghost guns are guns that can be traced to a deceased gun owner.

    Why does the government say that they need to stop criminals from getting guns? Isn't that against the constitution to assume that someone is guilty of a crime before they actually commit a crime?

    This is so confusing to me how unalienable rights are revoked on a whim.
     
  14. DeepSouth
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    DeepSouth Random Guy

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    Violent felons, sorry, but no.
    The guy wrote bad checks or got a few DUI's 35 years ago, yeah I'm fine with them having a gun.

    Unfortunately, none of this matters. Our justice system is extremely broken and no elected officials have any desire to fix it. Neither does the overwhelming majority of the public. And with that said, I fully believe we have the best justice system in the world, and probably the best in history, except possibly earlier American history.


    Just a FYI, their have been studies that concluded the average American commits multiple felonies a day and doesn't even know it.
     
  15. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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    I believe GCA of 1968 & NFA of 1934 should be repealed. If someone can not be trusted to be loose in society then execute them or keep them locked up. If they can be trusted to be loose on the street they should have their rights.
     
  16. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Unfortunately the atmosphere around any gun-related issue is so super-charged that even reasonable legislators that might want to take a look at this issue will shy away from it. There's a guy who regularly posts on this forum who's a poster child for someone who shouldn't be barred from gun ownership and the ability to hunt (anyone that's seen the Life Below Zero tv show knows exactly who I'm referring to...). I'm a retired cop and I'd be the first to agree that the more laws we think up - the greater the opportunity for injustice to a few...

    Convicted of a violent felony? They deserve the prohibition 99% of the time - but even there I'd go along with a review process every five or ten years to see whether the individual has turned their life around and might be trusted with gun ownership/lawful use again. That said, I figure it will only occur in some land far, far away... not in this country given the emotion surrounding every bit of gun ownership (and all the folks who'd dispose of the second amendment in a heartbeat if they could....).
     
  17. Whiskey11

    Whiskey11 Member

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    As a member of law enforcement, I have a unique perspective on this. I have met felons that have done everything from stealing over a certain amount of money to brutally murdering someone. I have met maybe ONE felon who I would trust with a firearm. The vast majority of the felons I deal with are repeat and habitual offenders that belong in prison and not on the streets. Keep in mind, these people are overwhelmingly repeat offenders of lesser crimes. Some have rap sheets that will destroy a ream of paper if printed.

    Really, I'm extremely uncomfortable with these people having access to firearms.
     
  18. crazysquirrel

    crazysquirrel Member

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    If they should not have gun rights then WHY are they loose in society?

    Either abolish some of the felony laws or keep the bad ones locked up.

    Some felons are forced to resort to additional crime because they cannot get a job (I know several).

    They made mistakes in their past (usually pot charges and nothing violent) and are still paying the price.

    I know 2 other felons who, by illegal and unreasonable federal laws, were convicted of felonies related to sex predator classification. One guys' daughter downloaded 'kiddie porn' which was probably a naked selfie, and he got convicted of 2 felonies even though he didn't download anything. They were on his computer his daughter used.

    All it takes is ONE claim by a female and the guy is GUILTY unless he can PROVE his innocence. And even then he is guilty.

    Should that person lose his rights, including and especially his gun rights, for life?

    The other guy was being extorted by a teenage girl. He didn't pay up so she falsely accused him. Courts took her word over his without a shred of proof and he was convicted.

    Granted some criminals should never have a gun. But should that revocation be permanent? Commit a dumb crime at 18 and keep your nose clean for 40 years, should they still lose their rights?

    Thinking Shawshank Redemption (Red).

    Perhaps a 3 strikes and you are out law would alleviate much of the problem?

    Immediate death penalty for blatant murder?

    Some crimes, by merely having a gun near you whether you use it or not can get you elevated into a bar for life status.

    Our legal system is trying to micromanage everyone and using guns as a leveraging tool.

    I get the feeling that those with the rap sheets are ummm 'minorities' to put it politely?

    LEO's can have an easier job if criminals were given true justice the first time around.

    But for minor or mundane crimes no one should lose their gun rights for life or long periods.
     
  19. crazysquirrel

    crazysquirrel Member

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    PS if you met someone who brutally murdered someone they WHY are they not locked up in jail or executed? Apparently our justice system is clearly broken. About thieves - there are ways to encourage them not to steal again (think middle east punishments).
     
  20. caribou

    caribou Member

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    Its about how much money you have to defend yourself with.

    Ill tell you my story here, its exactly what the OP is asking, but if the mods remove this post, Im cool with that too.

    I was made a Felon when I reported an Alaska State Troopers assault on my oldest daughter. Luckily at the time , another AST stopped the attack , but that didnt stop him and the assaulting officer from later lying and changing the story and audio recordings of the events.

    The Alaska State Troopers altered their own recordings to implicate me. I never once touched their personal recorders, and they did not lose them or erase them, but changed them to make me look like I was an aggressive nut, and deny me my Constitutional Rights to Fair Trial, and as well, they changed the tapes to hide the crime I reported and implicate me in a crime. They repeatedly lied in court, something else that's no problem to show, when this go's Federal....

    After trial, in which I was found guilty of Purgery for my report , but before sentencing, I had two audio Forensic specialists go over and scientifically PROVE that the only evidence was tampered with. If that had not happened, I would have never even gone to court.

    I was sentenced to 7 years and 3 months prison time, 3 years probation. Once my sentence is "served" the damn felony "go's away", according to the Judge and my current Lawyer.....so there is some ways to get past the life long punishment.

    At my sentencing , I gave both reports, one from Brite Soultions of Anchorage, one from SandCastle recordings or Fairbanks, that both clearly showed the evidence tampering, and yet was denied a dismissal. It was clearly the amount of $$$ that I was able to pour into my Audio Forensic Specialists reports that made a difference.
    After the AFS reports were given to the judge, not one Alaska State Trooper would testify how "Bad I made their lives with my "lies", as they were expected to in the trooper crowded Court room. Insted its all been threats as it started with.

    My wife saw the assault and is also a victim, and thats why she stood to and went hunting these last 3 or so years with out a flinch. Shes 100% behind me on this, thankfully.


    Soooooooooooooooooooooooo I put in an appeal and explained my intentions to the the Judge ........who then let me walk out of the court room until "retrial". Talk about a dozen Pizzed AST!!! I was astounded how many know about the evidence tampering, but taking their cue's from child molesting priests, they all cover for their fellow criminals in this gang here and not serve Justice or protection as their jobs demand.

    This is my current state, even a year later....waiting.....waiting.....waiting.....
    http://www.thearcticsounder.com/article/1452life_below_zero_star_appeals_perjury

    Heres just one tampering. Notice that despite the missing conversation (its me hes suddenly talking to asking about "something unrelated" to the conversation he cut out.....and no change in the time stamp , either, as well as his testimonial that the tapes were never tampered with. I have a couple more , but this one is already public, and can be shared.
    Listen and see if you can detect the cut.....
    http://s53.photobucket.com/user/edwardhailstone/media/AlaskaStateTrooperYoungevidencetampering.mp4.html?sort=3&o=55

    Fact is, I have completed my 3 years of probation without a single violation, and according to Fed laws, Black Powder is the way I have to go, and I will.

    This is not over, however and much more $$$ and time will get wasted bringing the real criminals out of their protective Trooper cover, and into a prison cell, where they belong.

    I am not at all "Anti-Police" at all, but I believe they MUST be held accountable, responsible, and I believe Politicians, cops and bankers need mandatory minimum sentencing when they abuse their authority, just like child molesters. Should share the same cells too.
    Before this, as many here know from my years of posting, that I was a Hunter, a Fire dept Chief, an EMT-1 and a disaster planing commissioner for our Borough and on a public safety board, here in Noorvik. In those years, all went quite well in all dealings with the police, but the Northwest of Ak has a dark cloud now ........

    You can be made a Felon, easily, if a criminal gang of cops and their enablers in officers positions decide to beat your daughters, threaten you, and frame you when you report it, and I dont even live in Chicago.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  21. gripper

    gripper Member

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    I'm another who supports ALL rights being restored at conclusion of obligations ( sentence,probation/parole etc). If some is out and about society ,the concept of lifetime third tier citizenship is wrong. If one can't be trusted with all rights, then don't let them out again. Anything else is bait for the Leviathan State Control Freak types.
     
  22. gripper

    gripper Member

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    We've overcriminalized things to the point that " Felony" is an always expanding definition. Limit it to crimes against people- murder, rape,assault (REAL assault, not harsh language) etc. And STOP releasing serious whackjobs because " they're almost cured".
     
  23. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    And I can say the same thing about a 100-1 ratio of folks who are currently allowed to own guns...........so what?

    I like Ron White's statement a bout TX and the death penalty- "If you kill someone in TX, we will kill you back"
     
  24. gripper

    gripper Member

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    I've known a LOT of cops. So pardon me if the lack of regard a public servant has for the public-which includes many deemed felons- doesn't faze me.
     
  25. caribou

    caribou Member

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    Remember too, you can lose your 2nd amendment Rights if someone perceives a threat, of ANY kind any threat, be it verbal or physical or just precived and a "Domestic Violence" or assault, 4th degree charge, a misdemeanor , that will bar you from owning any firearms for LIFE.

    No even a Felony at that, and maybe an example could be the bum 'daughter's boyfriend' who wont leave the couch , and feels "threatend' when you tell 'em he has to go....only has to beat you to the phone..........
     
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