FFL printing Delays

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Sherwood Defense, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. Sherwood Defense

    Sherwood Defense Member

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    Hello all, My FFL application was accepted on October 12th, my inspection was on December 7th, it was approved on December 8th but wasn't issued until December 23rd and ONLY because I called the FFLC to ask about it. They hadn't issued it yet because am I quote "we can't mail it within 5 to 15 days". The reason they gave is that they just got finished migrating everything to the cloud and their printing system was offline. They had no idea when it was going to come back online. The short of it is that I still haven't received the paper copy, as they suggested was the case, but does anybody know any more about this? There is absolutely nothing about this on the Internet or the ATF sites at all. My FFL is issued and shows active in the system, verified by FFLEzCheck and I was able to successfully set up my NICS account online. Obviously I cannot purchase nor transfer any firearms until I have the paper copy in-hand. The do not do LOAs (Letters of Authorization) for new FFLs. Any information anyone may have would be very helpful as I am dead in the water without the paper copy. My IOI is working hard for me here and her login says it was printed the day they issued it but it actually wasn't due to the reasons the FFLC told me. The whole reason they hadn't issued it was because apparently their internal rules say they must mail it in the aforementioned 5 to 15 days. Since they couldn't mail it in 5 to 15 days the didn't issue it until they could inform me (waiting for me to call) they they could not. I guess the statutory requirement to issue or deny in 60 days was less important. Thanks in advance..
     
  2. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    What information do you think forum members would give that would be different than what ATF told you?
    ATF are the only ones that know.;)
     
    waterhouse and Frank Ettin like this.
  3. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Working with your IOI is the best way to deal with this problem. You could try calling a regional ATF supervisor (called "jumping the chain of command" in the military) but I suspect that won't help you very much.
     
  4. Sherwood Defense

    Sherwood Defense Member

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    There are 5,083 employees at the ATF from my last check. Somebody knew something... just not the folks I was speaking with. I actually found the answer with the help of NSSF but I'll post it in a reply to one of the other comments.

    Thanks

    John
     
  5. Sherwood Defense

    Sherwood Defense Member

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    IOI was completely lost on it.

    Thanks

    John
     
  6. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 Member

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    Thanks for the heads up. I just sent my ffl renewal in last week. I’m assuming this will take longer then usual with the indicated problem.
     
  7. Sherwood Defense

    Sherwood Defense Member

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    Hello Folks,

    The answer to my original question is that they have begun printing the backlog on Licenses and it also affected Form 4s. The NSSF Compliance Section is who actually was able to find the answer. The fellow I spoke with at the NSSF worked at the FFLC for 30 years and had a contact at the top there who said a few things related to this.

    1. ATF just went through an upgrade migrating everything to the cloud. There were problems with the IT contract that left the FFLC without a printing solution initially. They have went to using their original printing system but it takes longer to convert smaller batches of Licenses/Form 4s they are running 3 to 4 weeks behind. The IOIs did get an email that there would be printing delays a few weeks ago but understood it as only a few days delay.
    2. They are going to send out a letter to those affected explaining what is going on
    3. They are considering issuing L.O.A.s (Letters of Authority) to New licensees. (They are currently waiting for a reply from their legal dept at the ATF)

    So to answer "Why would I think a FORUM member might know something "The ATF" or my "IOI" did not have? I used to work as a Govt employee (U.S. Army 15 years) someone here may have (or has) information neither I nor several of the ATF employees I spoke with had. There are 5082 employees at the ATF. At least one of the employees knew what was going. That information was NOT openly shared with the IOIs or the Wyoming section of the FFLS. It was also not shared with whoever answers the emails at the main FFLC communications office. I did get the information as I mentioned through the help of the NSSF Compliance Section. "The ATF" is 5082 people controlled by the DOJ and subject to Executive branch policies. I assumed that 'someone' probably had heard something. It was obvious that there was something wrong with the system and the normal folks who might know did not. Why wouldn't I ask a firearms question in a firearms forum designed to pool knowledge of a larger community for everyone's benefit?

    So, FFLs a about a month delayed right now and so are Form 4s. I am sharing this with the Forum so that folks aren't staring into space wondering what is going on with their FFL or their Form 4. I did not know about the Form 4 delays but since I was told that Form 4s were affected as well I am sharing that as well.

    Thanks for all you replies!
     
  8. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    So.........the NSSF told you exactly what you wrote in your OP?o_O
    Who do you think NSSF talked to? (the ATF)

    It's no great secret that ATF switched IT systems, in fact its on every gun forum in the country about the reintroduction of eForm 4's.
    Right here on THR: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/e-forms.898449/
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  9. Sherwood Defense

    Sherwood Defense Member

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    Why do you have to be argumentative? The head of the NSSF Compliance department did not know about the printing problem. The ATF intentionally didn't tell anybody about the depth of the printing issues including their own industry level people. I don't have personal access to the head of the FFLC, the compliance guy at the NSSF did only because a personal relationship with him. I exhausted all of my contacts directly with the ATF. Those folks didn't know because they weren't told and in fact gave me information which was not correct. Your approach is "sit down, shut up and wait for them to get around to letting you [and other folks] know". I am an American, a Veteran, a Father and a Son. We don't sit around waiting for the Government to tell us what's up or what to do. We look for our own answers and solutions anywhere we can. My way worked and the proof is in what I know now vs what I knew when I started this thread. This is an open forum for folks to look for answers from a bigger audience than is available ordinarily in a specific area of interest. If here is not the place to ask a question then why why would it exist? The troll's life can't be a happy one though it IS a free country. God Bless you and I hope you find what you are looking for here.
     
  10. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    There really is no argument to be argumentative about.

    You don't need personal access or contacting anyone at ATF........it's common knowledge that ATF's old system was being replaced in early December.


    They WERE told. I pretty sure they WERE told because those very people you say "didn't know" have sent me and every other FFL in America multiple emails regarding the legacy system and the new cloud based system.



    Not in the least.


    You sir, are indeed in rare company.


    You got your panties in a wad because I pointed out the lack of logic in your posts?
    In your own OP, you wrote the answer to your own question.:rofl:
    You had your answer the minute you posted.
    Further, I gave you a link to a thread here on THR about the implementation of the new system..........yet "absolutely nothing" on the internet.:rofl:
    Google "ATF cloud" and you'll get only slightly more than THREE MILLION hits. Articles dating back four years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2022
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