FFL transfers
- Thread starter Alex45ACP
- Start date
- Status
i pay $10 per order... that may be for one gun, or 5.
the local shop gets $30, so on principle, i drive 25 miles out of my way to get the lower rate. amazing what else i find to buy when i am in there... because of that $10 x-fer, he probably makes an additional $100... the other place, i paid the $30 rip-off fee and left, no additional purchases.
when are gunshops gonna get it?
the local shop gets $30, so on principle, i drive 25 miles out of my way to get the lower rate. amazing what else i find to buy when i am in there... because of that $10 x-fer, he probably makes an additional $100... the other place, i paid the $30 rip-off fee and left, no additional purchases.
when are gunshops gonna get it?
Spreadfire Arms
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,312
dakotasin wrote:
gun shops (retail storefronts) have bills to pay, including rent, electricity, an alarm system, telephone, A/C, and in this day and age, high speed internet as well.
they also have to keep your 4473 for over 20 years. i would not consider $30 a "rip off" fee.
if you don't like it then go get your own FFL and do your own transfers for free and then extend your transfers for $10 per order (regardless of quantity) or as low as $5.50 on here by a local Austin FFL. then warehouse your 4473's for 20+ years and wonder how you can possibly make a profit doing this?
oh yeah, gun dealers who make a profit are evil.....
gun shops (retail storefronts) have bills to pay, including rent, electricity, an alarm system, telephone, A/C, and in this day and age, high speed internet as well.
they also have to keep your 4473 for over 20 years. i would not consider $30 a "rip off" fee.
if you don't like it then go get your own FFL and do your own transfers for free and then extend your transfers for $10 per order (regardless of quantity) or as low as $5.50 on here by a local Austin FFL. then warehouse your 4473's for 20+ years and wonder how you can possibly make a profit doing this?
oh yeah, gun dealers who make a profit are evil.....
i don't care if they make a profit - that's their job. but, they don't have to try to pay all their overhead on just my one transaction.
and, yeah, i know that those 4473's take up an inane amount of space, require high maintenance and constant attention so they should charge $30 per gun.
i don't mind paying a little extra to support the little guys... but, the local shop prices his stuff higher than cabela's. eg, i don't mind paying up to $30-33 for a box of barnes xlc's (cabela's has 'em on the shelf for $27). so, in the spirit of helping the little guy, i ordered 2 boxes, (stupidly) thinking it would be around $30/box. imagine my surprise when i got charged $50/box after waiting 10 days, just so i could support the little guy. i tried to buy a gun at the 'little guy', and he wanted $750 to order it (meaning i wait 11 days for it). i walked into cabela's and walked out w/ my stick for $630.
let him go under. he's not entitled to my business. and what irritates me the most is all the guns and components i bought from him in the last year! i bought a 700 vls from him for $585... 2 months later, i went back to get another one, and it was $630 (both prices higher than cabela's at the time - the second one quite a bit higher), and went ahead and paid for priviledge of waiting to support the little guy... 2 700 lvsf's, same story.
life goes on...
and, yeah, i know that those 4473's take up an inane amount of space, require high maintenance and constant attention so they should charge $30 per gun.
i don't mind paying a little extra to support the little guys... but, the local shop prices his stuff higher than cabela's. eg, i don't mind paying up to $30-33 for a box of barnes xlc's (cabela's has 'em on the shelf for $27). so, in the spirit of helping the little guy, i ordered 2 boxes, (stupidly) thinking it would be around $30/box. imagine my surprise when i got charged $50/box after waiting 10 days, just so i could support the little guy. i tried to buy a gun at the 'little guy', and he wanted $750 to order it (meaning i wait 11 days for it). i walked into cabela's and walked out w/ my stick for $630.
let him go under. he's not entitled to my business. and what irritates me the most is all the guns and components i bought from him in the last year! i bought a 700 vls from him for $585... 2 months later, i went back to get another one, and it was $630 (both prices higher than cabela's at the time - the second one quite a bit higher), and went ahead and paid for priviledge of waiting to support the little guy... 2 700 lvsf's, same story.
life goes on...
Spreadfire Arms
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,312
trust me they aren't paying their day's worth of operating costs on your $30 transfer.
they do take up alot of space over time, and they do require some amount of attention, and you have to keep them for 20 years. ATF requires you to keep track of them and if you misplace the one they are looking for you are in deep ????. have you ever had to keep up with a single piece of paper for 20 years? probably. your birth certificate is probably one of them, but you only have one. you don't have hundreds or even thousands to store, but only track, assign a number to, and also be able to pull them at a moment's notice upon request of the ATF to run a trace.
it's not as easy as you think. big gun dealers probably have an entire room full of filing cabinets just for this. even small potatoes guys have a file cabinet dedicated to just this.
don't knock it till you try it. would you like the phone number to the ATF Licensing Center?
nope, i don't want an ffl. never did, was never an issue. what does me having an ffl have to do w/ anything anyway?
the point i was trying to make was that i buy a ton of gun-related stuff. guns, component pieces to load, dies, shellholders, scopes, rings, bases, triggers, stocks, etc etc etc.
when i walk into the gun dealer, and he charges me $30 to transfer one gun, i don't feel good about the transaction. so i pay the $30 and leave. when i go to the other place and pay $10 to transfer 3 ar receivers, i also pick up 500 hornady 60 grain v-max's, 250 noslers in 40, 200 pieces of 7 rum brass, dies, a shellholder, and 2 or 3 pounds of powder. to further that, since i don't feel like i'm being gouged everytime i turn around, i'll be back next week for a similiar process.
now, you tell me - since you're a dealer and know profit margins on gun-stuff better than i... who made money? so... is that $30 x-fer fee worth it? or is the $10 x-fer and the shopping cart of crap i just bought the better money maker?
i guess if the $30 fee is worth more, fine, make your money. that's the point i was making, that's all.
the point i was trying to make was that i buy a ton of gun-related stuff. guns, component pieces to load, dies, shellholders, scopes, rings, bases, triggers, stocks, etc etc etc.
when i walk into the gun dealer, and he charges me $30 to transfer one gun, i don't feel good about the transaction. so i pay the $30 and leave. when i go to the other place and pay $10 to transfer 3 ar receivers, i also pick up 500 hornady 60 grain v-max's, 250 noslers in 40, 200 pieces of 7 rum brass, dies, a shellholder, and 2 or 3 pounds of powder. to further that, since i don't feel like i'm being gouged everytime i turn around, i'll be back next week for a similiar process.
now, you tell me - since you're a dealer and know profit margins on gun-stuff better than i... who made money? so... is that $30 x-fer fee worth it? or is the $10 x-fer and the shopping cart of crap i just bought the better money maker?
i guess if the $30 fee is worth more, fine, make your money. that's the point i was making, that's all.
Spreadfire Arms
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,312
im not sure who made more money since you are purchasing inventory, you'd have to see how much he paid vs. how much he sold it for. it is true you may have spent more money in his shop buying things, but you also may not be rule but the exception. how many people can you guarantee will come into his shop and buy as much as you did because the transfer cost $20 less? or how many people will continue to use him at $10 per pop for unlimited amounts of firearms and not buy anything from his store? you can't guarantee it will go either way.
having an FFL would give you an understanding as to how much paperwork is involved with the care and feeding of a completed 4473. you may not understand things like ATF Traces, ATF inspections, how nitpicky they can be on how a 4473 is filled out (no mistakes or abbreviations), the filing system, acquistion and disposition, not to mention state sales tax and IRS revenue paperwork can impact a single transfer. it can all be a huge paperwork trail that you are accountable for over the next 20 years.
NFA transfers are $50....Zrex asked.
and if you think $30 is outrageous take a look at this thread:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1744122#post1744122
a post from Cpileri:
"The local guy up here charges 25 bucks plus tax PLUS 10% of the cost of the weapon!" [Belton, Texas which is about 50 miles north of Austin]
having an FFL would give you an understanding as to how much paperwork is involved with the care and feeding of a completed 4473. you may not understand things like ATF Traces, ATF inspections, how nitpicky they can be on how a 4473 is filled out (no mistakes or abbreviations), the filing system, acquistion and disposition, not to mention state sales tax and IRS revenue paperwork can impact a single transfer. it can all be a huge paperwork trail that you are accountable for over the next 20 years.
NFA transfers are $50....Zrex asked.
and if you think $30 is outrageous take a look at this thread:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1744122#post1744122
a post from Cpileri:
"The local guy up here charges 25 bucks plus tax PLUS 10% of the cost of the weapon!" [Belton, Texas which is about 50 miles north of Austin]
i don't know what it cost the dealer to stock the items... a wild guess, here:
the 700 lss to me was $630. i'd imagine dealer price on it to be around $575.
the hornadys to me were $11/100 (*5 boxes), and would guess dealer price at around $10/100.
noslers, i really don't recall, i believe they were $24.50/250, so i'd guess dealer price to be about $21.
powders $19/pound, and i would guess dealer price to be about $15/pound.
talleys were were $43/each, and i'd imagine dealer price was $41/ea, but am clueless there, because talley sells direct, if you want (outstanding people, btw).
rifle basix lv-1 was $100, dealer is what? $90?? no idea.
as you might imagine, i keep no receipts. i don't keep receipts for the same reason i don't count my guns/scopes, and start the numbering at an odd number on the excel files (which i don't know what the start # is): i don't want to actually know, and i'd rather my wife not know every gritty detail. she knows, and she knows enough, but she doesn't need to know all.
all that was brought on by the $10 x-fer fee. anyway, not a retailer, so no, i really don't know what he paid for his inventory, and don't know what the acceptable mark-up was.
hell w/ it... doesn't matter. the market will eventually correct deficiencies, regardless of who it is, either by running one out of business, or forcing the other to change prices.
as far as the paperwork, no, i don't know what really goes into it - though i have a rudimentary understanding... but, i do pay $10 to x-fer, and i see others claiming anywhere from $5 on up to 50 or more (non-nfa). so, if some are doing it for $5-10, maybe they are making up for it w/ inventory sales, if $5-10 is a losing proposition.
edit: my mistake... the lss came from cabela's, not the 10-dollar dealer... hell, now i'm all flustered... and, to answer your question, no i don't know if i am the exception or the norm... i see people spending a lot more than i, and see folks looking for the $50 mauser special, and nothing more... dunno. not in the business, just a gun-junkie that gets off on burning powder and feeling a little kick...
the 700 lss to me was $630. i'd imagine dealer price on it to be around $575.
the hornadys to me were $11/100 (*5 boxes), and would guess dealer price at around $10/100.
noslers, i really don't recall, i believe they were $24.50/250, so i'd guess dealer price to be about $21.
powders $19/pound, and i would guess dealer price to be about $15/pound.
talleys were were $43/each, and i'd imagine dealer price was $41/ea, but am clueless there, because talley sells direct, if you want (outstanding people, btw).
rifle basix lv-1 was $100, dealer is what? $90?? no idea.
as you might imagine, i keep no receipts. i don't keep receipts for the same reason i don't count my guns/scopes, and start the numbering at an odd number on the excel files (which i don't know what the start # is): i don't want to actually know, and i'd rather my wife not know every gritty detail. she knows, and she knows enough, but she doesn't need to know all.
all that was brought on by the $10 x-fer fee. anyway, not a retailer, so no, i really don't know what he paid for his inventory, and don't know what the acceptable mark-up was.
hell w/ it... doesn't matter. the market will eventually correct deficiencies, regardless of who it is, either by running one out of business, or forcing the other to change prices.
as far as the paperwork, no, i don't know what really goes into it - though i have a rudimentary understanding... but, i do pay $10 to x-fer, and i see others claiming anywhere from $5 on up to 50 or more (non-nfa). so, if some are doing it for $5-10, maybe they are making up for it w/ inventory sales, if $5-10 is a losing proposition.
edit: my mistake... the lss came from cabela's, not the 10-dollar dealer... hell, now i'm all flustered... and, to answer your question, no i don't know if i am the exception or the norm... i see people spending a lot more than i, and see folks looking for the $50 mauser special, and nothing more... dunno. not in the business, just a gun-junkie that gets off on burning powder and feeling a little kick...
Spreadfire Arms
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,312
dakotasin,
just be glad you don't live in Belton, Texas...that guy is charging $25 + tax + 10% of the cost of the firearm transferred.
i would agree that is totally out of line!
just be glad you don't live in Belton, Texas...that guy is charging $25 + tax + 10% of the cost of the firearm transferred.
i would agree that is totally out of line!
Spreadfire Arms
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,312
modification on transfers
due to having to wait a ridiculous amount of time at the local post office to pick up USPS packages, i have amended my transfer policy as follows:
normal Title I transfers are $10 for THR members if your seller ships via another carrier besdies USPS. if your seller ships via USPS i will not offer the THR discount and it will remain $20 because i am waiting up to 30-40 minutes in line to pick up your package.
i apologize in advance if i inconvenience anybody for this policy change, however, i still feel that $20 is a fair price for a Title I transfer.
due to having to wait a ridiculous amount of time at the local post office to pick up USPS packages, i have amended my transfer policy as follows:
normal Title I transfers are $10 for THR members if your seller ships via another carrier besdies USPS. if your seller ships via USPS i will not offer the THR discount and it will remain $20 because i am waiting up to 30-40 minutes in line to pick up your package.
i apologize in advance if i inconvenience anybody for this policy change, however, i still feel that $20 is a fair price for a Title I transfer.
eastwood44mag
Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2005
- Messages
- 1,027
Shops near me (15 min or less) are $50 and $100.
Needless to say, I drive another 15 minutes to find a guy who isn't a complete scumbag.
Needless to say, I drive another 15 minutes to find a guy who isn't a complete scumbag.
1 old 0311
member
$10.00
skydelta34
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2006
- Messages
- 14
$10 for me also, Kevin and I must use the same ffl.
LiquidTension
Member
$25 at the pawn shop I use, $40 at the nearest shop.
The gunsmith that used to be over in W. Columbia checked his records. He did over 500 transfers one year, so he raised his price by $10. $35 is a bit high, but I didn't have a problem with it since he always cut me a break on work and he was a friend.
Those guys that want 10% of the cost of the gun are just begging to go out of business.
The gunsmith that used to be over in W. Columbia checked his records. He did over 500 transfers one year, so he raised his price by $10. $35 is a bit high, but I didn't have a problem with it since he always cut me a break on work and he was a friend.
Those guys that want 10% of the cost of the gun are just begging to go out of business.
Tejas Gunwerks
Member
"$25 at the pawn shop I use, $40 at the nearest shop.
The gunsmith that used to be over in W. Columbia checked his records. He did over 500 transfers one year, so he raised his price by $10. $35 is a bit high, but I didn't have a problem with it since he always cut me a break on work and he was a friend.
Those guys that want 10% of the cost of the gun are just begging to go out of business."
$35.00 may be more than you are willing to pay, but it is not high. FFL's who want 10% of the cost of the gun are not begging to go out of business, they are begging you to take your transfers elsewhere. They really don't want to do them. I assume transfers are an insignificant part of any Dealer's business unless they are a kitchen table FFL. And if they want to get rich $5.00 per transfer, more power to them. They will change their tune with the first audit they have. Transfers are a high risk transaction which $35.00 does not cover the risk of fines, lose of FFL or prision. We have to keep the paperwork for 20 years and they even recommend we keep if we are in business for over 20 years. It is a papertrail that can come back to bite us on the ass.
The gunsmith that used to be over in W. Columbia checked his records. He did over 500 transfers one year, so he raised his price by $10. $35 is a bit high, but I didn't have a problem with it since he always cut me a break on work and he was a friend.
Those guys that want 10% of the cost of the gun are just begging to go out of business."
$35.00 may be more than you are willing to pay, but it is not high. FFL's who want 10% of the cost of the gun are not begging to go out of business, they are begging you to take your transfers elsewhere. They really don't want to do them. I assume transfers are an insignificant part of any Dealer's business unless they are a kitchen table FFL. And if they want to get rich $5.00 per transfer, more power to them. They will change their tune with the first audit they have. Transfers are a high risk transaction which $35.00 does not cover the risk of fines, lose of FFL or prision. We have to keep the paperwork for 20 years and they even recommend we keep if we are in business for over 20 years. It is a papertrail that can come back to bite us on the ass.
RustyShackelford
member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,018
FFL transfer fees/GunsAmerica.com
Hello
In my area I can pay $25.00 for an FFL transfer.
If I were you, check GunsAmerica's website; www.GunsAmerica.com go to the contact information for a gun dealer in your zip code and look for the lowest fee, .
It's free and a great time saver.
Many FFL/gunshop dealers charge around $50.00. Why I have no idea. A well run shop can do FFL transfers for $20/25.00 plus any state/local background check fees and still get a profit. Some gun shops list themselves on firearm sites then act like it's a big hassle when you contact them, . If you can find a good FFL holder/gun shop stay with them and pass it on to other shooting sports/gun owners in your area. Avoid the scam artists and BSers, too :banghead: .
All the best;
RS
Hello
In my area I can pay $25.00 for an FFL transfer.
If I were you, check GunsAmerica's website; www.GunsAmerica.com go to the contact information for a gun dealer in your zip code and look for the lowest fee,
.It's free and a great time saver.
Many FFL/gunshop dealers charge around $50.00. Why I have no idea. A well run shop can do FFL transfers for $20/25.00 plus any state/local background check fees and still get a profit. Some gun shops list themselves on firearm sites then act like it's a big hassle when you contact them,
. If you can find a good FFL holder/gun shop stay with them and pass it on to other shooting sports/gun owners in your area. Avoid the scam artists and BSers, too :banghead: .All the best;
RS
RobW
Member
I knew one shop with an neglectible inventory that tried the same thing. Was gone within 1 year.
It is not enough to be a gun afficionado to run a gun shop, you have to have marketing skills. Arrogance (especially in dealing with female customers), incompetence (yes, witnessed it in quite a lot of gun shops), and the competition of web companies will result in fast deaths of such enterprises.
Tejas Gunwerks
Member
"Many FFL/gunshop dealers charge around $50.00. Why I have no idea. A well run shop can do FFL transfers for $20/25.00 plus any state/local background check fees and still get a profit. Some gun shops list themselves on firearm sites then act like it's a big hassle when you contact them, ."
You don't understand because you won't listen to the Dealer's that are telling you why. It can get us put in prison. It is a hassle. We are only doing it for our customers, not as a profit making enterprise. Why don't you go through the "hassle" to get your own FFL. You can do $5.00 transfers to your heart's content.
You don't understand because you won't listen to the Dealer's that are telling you why. It can get us put in prison. It is a hassle. We are only doing it for our customers, not as a profit making enterprise. Why don't you go through the "hassle" to get your own FFL. You can do $5.00 transfers to your heart's content.
MudPuppy
Member
Steve,
How's the best way to request your services, a PM? (as in, getting the mfg a copy of your FFL)
I'm looking at the noDak Spud www.nodakspud.com AK stuff.
Thanks!
PS, why do they even need a hardcopy anymore? (well, other than that's the law, as in shouldn't that be updated...) Can't they just access the database and send it to the listed address?
How's the best way to request your services, a PM? (as in, getting the mfg a copy of your FFL)
I'm looking at the noDak Spud www.nodakspud.com AK stuff.
Thanks!
PS, why do they even need a hardcopy anymore? (well, other than that's the law, as in shouldn't that be updated...) Can't they just access the database and send it to the listed address?
bamawrx
Member
Gunbroker has a link to check for FFL's that will do a transfer for you, and they normally show the fee. Try that out. www.gunbroker.com
I think you'll find one close by at a much better rate. I used to pay $10-20, until I found one that did it for free!
I think you'll find one close by at a much better rate. I used to pay $10-20, until I found one that did it for free!
MudPuppy
Member
Well, Steve is here in town, is a THR member, has a great rate, and is a heck of nice guy--can't beat that!
- Status
