Quantcast

FFL Types or, "No you don't have to "have a class 3" to buy a machinegun/sbr/etc.".

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by hso, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. Quiet

    Quiet Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    bouncing between the 909 & the 702
    More to it than just that.
    Need to submit a proposal/report with corresponding data as to why it should be C&R to BATFE.
    This method is how the Czech 9x18mm CZ-82 became a C&R.
     
  2. MenaceMan47

    MenaceMan47 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    128
    Class 3

    I've had to educate sooooo many people in this subject. Sooooo many people I've met ask (or say) whether you need a license just to own a machine gun. I keep telling them it's the same process as owning any other NFA item (LEO sigs, fingerprints, tax stamp, etc.). Yet, they just keep coming out of the woodwork.
     
  3. suppressedthunder

    suppressedthunder Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    I used 199trust.com to create my trust documents when I bought my SBR. The Docs were awesome and they were quickly emailed to me. Can't beat the price either, an attorney in my hometown was going to charge me $450 which is outrageous imo.

    Actually I am looking forward to buying a can for the SBR and I will throw that in the trust too.

    A buddy of mine used guntrustlawyer.com to buy a trust and said his cost like $350. He was pissed when I told him what I paid for mine, lol that's what he gets for not doing his research :)
     
  4. Paradigm

    Paradigm Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    I'm from WI, living in TN through the summer.
    Where are the exceptions?

    "http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/"

    This is from the ATF website. From the looks of this, the regs don't allow any FFL items in WI, period. I know this is not the case, but where are the exceptions for FFL tax stamps, class 2 licenses, ect in this document?
     
  5. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    695
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    According to my research, Wisconsin allows all Title II firearms, except that machine guns are only allowed for scientific purposes (whatever that means).

    I'm not sure what we were supposed to see in that link. It's just a list of ATF forms and publications. Where does it say anything about Wisconsin? The ATF doesn't regulate which states can have what. As far as the feds are concerned, you're welcome to have it all. It's the states that restrict certain types of NFA firearms.

    I think you haven't gotten the terminology down yet. Read this thread again: FFL is a federal firearms licensee, or firearms dealer. Class 2 is a type of special occupational tax that an FFL can have if he wants to make and sell Title II firearms.

    Title II firearms are silencers, machine guns, SBSs, SBRs, destructive devices and Any Other Weapons.

    Normal everyday citizens apply for a single tax stamp for each Title II firearms he wants to own. There is not special licensing involved--just an application for a tax stamp. After a 6-month average wait, if he can legally buy a firearm, he'll be approved for the tax stamp and can take possession of the Title II firearm.

    Aaron
     
  6. Paradigm

    Paradigm Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    I'm from WI, living in TN through the summer.
    Exceptions, Cont

    Thanks for the info Mr. Baker, and you are correct, I messed up the terminology. Here is a more specific link. http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/state-laws/31st-edition/index.html
    This is the same site from the other link, just one click further. On the right there is a list of states. I looked at WI, my home state, and read the ATF's regs concerning title 2/NFA items. The reg states that these are prohibited, and I can't find the section that allows for CLEO/tax stamp/fingerprint/ect.
     
  7. tark

    tark Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,731
    Location:
    atkinson, ill
    Illinois is a "No way, Harvey" state when it comes to Machine guns. But I worked for a firearms manufacturer who was based in Illinois, the owner lived in Illinois.....and he had a safe full of machine guns.!! He said that he paid a thousand bucks a year (I think that was the amount) for a special tax stamp, to go with his manufacturers license, and that was that. Must have been, because our good buddies from the ATF were frequent visitors.

    I'm confused ! How was that legal? I thought that when federal and state law conflicted, the Feds always went by the more restrictive law.... And Illinois says no, you can't have one...
     
  8. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,643
    Location:
    Western PA
    I'm guessing that Illinois only prevents individuals from having them, not dealers. Your friend is allowed to possess those items because he holds a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and has paid the Special Occupational Tax (SOT) that allows an FFL to deal in Title II firearms (and also manufacture them if they have a certain type of SOT).

    Illinois apparently allows FFL/SOT holders to possess and sell machine guns, but they probably restrict who they can sell them to (my guess is they're only allowed to sell to law enforcement, but I don't know Illinois gun laws).
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
  9. lordfarquaad

    lordfarquaad Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    So my question is:

    I have a Class 1 FFL license. If I want to make a suppressor, for personal use, do I fill out the "Form 1" like everyone else, as individual or trust? Or is there some other process? Just didn't make sense that I'd have to do the fingerprinting and passport photo thing again.
     
    BobbyV likes this.
  10. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    Virginia
    Yes. The 01 FFL doesn't allow you to "manufacture." In order to bypass the Form 1, you would need an 07 FFL and a Class 2 SOT. This can get expensive, especially considering the ITAR tax. You're better off just filing the Form 1 and paying the $200 tax.
     
    BobbyV likes this.
  11. lordfarquaad

    lordfarquaad Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Thank you. And what about purchasing one (Form 4)? Same answer, I am guessing?
     
  12. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    51,638
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    Pre '86 is transferrable to anyone that can pass the background and pay the fees and get the signatures, etc.

    Post '86 are transferrable as "dealer samples" to dealers.

    See below - http://rkmerting.com/pre-and-post-dealer-samples/



     
  13. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    Virginia
    Basically, yes. You could pay the $500 Class 3 SOT, on top of your 01 FFL, which would allow you to get suppressors tax-free using the Form 3. However, this would make sense only if you were planning at least 3 transactions a year. Otherwise it would be cheaper just to pay the $200 transfer tax.

    One advantage of having the 01 FFL (without the SOT) is that you can get an NFA item interstate, on a one-time or occasional basis, without having to go through another dealer. You still have to pay the transfer tax.
     
  14. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    Virginia
    He was asking about a suppressor. The May 19, 1986, cutoff date applies only to machine guns.
     
  15. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    16,301
    Location:
    Elbert County, CO
    Also bear in mind that SOT is not a one-time deal like the tax stamp; you have to pay the $500 SOT every single year ($1,000 if your business does >$500K/yr. in revenue), and NFA items must be disposed of if you don't maintain it. Not at all a practical way to acquire personal NFA items.

    ATF is also not at all OK with using FFL or SOT status to enhance personal collections.
     
  16. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,032
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    Not true.
    Sole Proprietors can keep everthing but post '86 machine guns once they cease paying their SOT.
    Corporations that stop paying their SOT can continue to possess as long as their corporation remains valid.
     
  17. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,151
    we get SBR's Suppressors (usable for about 6 years now), and AOW's
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice