Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Final, last version of "The Avalanche"

Discussion in 'Legal' started by MicroBalrog, Jul 11, 2003.

?

Whether or not you agree, is it well-written?

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    92.3%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    The Avalanche
    By Boris Karpa

    Do you read fantasy books? In one of my favorite ones, I found the following
    quote: "The Empire rolled a pebble down the slope. The problem is, that was
    the pebble that started the avalanche." Why did I think of it now? Well,
    just a few days ago, Alaska passed a law that said people no longer had to
    have a license to carry concealed weapons. Not a significant event in
    itself, even for Americans - and I'm not an American. However, that event is
    interesting - not in itself, but for its consequences for gun control in
    general - in America and elsewhere.
    Those who will look at the history of gun control in the Western world will
    find one bizarre fact in the whole deal which is generally undeniable:
    throughout most of the 20th century, more and more restrictive gun laws were
    enacted - before any significant research on the matter came to be. Only in
    the late 1970's - early 1980's did research on the matter start to appear.
    And when it did, it tumbled like a snowball.
    Very few people - except a few dedicated civil rights activists, perhaps -
    noticed the 1982 Senate Subcommittee report on the matter, talking about
    "the repeated, complete and inevitable failure of gun laws to control
    serious crime". Few noticed the 1989 work by Colin Greenwood of the
    University of Cambridge. Few have also noticed the passage of
    "Right-to-Carry" laws in the 1970's.
    However, the results were to be massive and unexpected. During the wave of
    anti-gun hysteria of the early 1990's which has seen such idiotism as the UK
    1997 handgun ban and the US "Assault Weapons" ban, nobody has also noticed
    the passing of "Right-to-Carry" laws in numerous American states - and then,
    the unexpected relaxation of gun laws in several ex-Soviet republics -
    Estonia, Lithuania, Moldova - with the same result everywhere - the
    reduction of violent crime rates.
    More and more experts stated their opinions on the topic - and most of them
    (those financed by groups like HCI do not count, of course) did not agree
    with gun control. And Americans were not the only ones. John Whitley, David
    Kopel, Gary Kleck, Valeriy Polozov, John Lott, Steven Kendrick, Eugene
    Volokh. The pebble was rolling down the slope, and more and more, bigger and
    bigger pebbles were getting caught up.
    By 2003, it is clear to any that cares to look, that the gun control lobbies
    of the western world, for the first time in nearly a century, are losing
    ground. In the USA, the "Million" Mom March failed to gather even 400 "moms"
    for its annual rally, and the "Assault Weapon" Ban is nowhere near being
    extended, most states have "Right to Carry" laws, - and two even have true
    Right to Carry laws - the Armed Pilots Act passed, and the Lawful Commerce
    in Firearms Act is next. In Britain, Canada, Australia, major media have
    started to publish more and more pro-gun articles. Even the BBC ran an
    editorial by Joyce Lee Malcolm - a U.S. historian who proved that the UK's
    draconian gun laws have lead to high levels of violence. In Russia, the
    right to bear arms is heavily discussed, with many media outlets rallying
    behind it. In Italy, government officials have voiced support of the right
    to bear arms.fAnd when Michael Moore got an Oscar for his piece of anti-NRA
    propaganda, the Academy received over 10,000 letters demanding withdrawal of
    the award - and they're considering it. And just look at what happened to
    Versailles
    And there's more and more of that with every day.
    The evidence, ladies and gentlemen, is clear. Gun control is dying. Somebody
    dropped a pebble down the hill in the 1980's, and it's starting to drag some
    pretty large boulders along with it. Brace yourself, Sarah Brady. Take
    cover, Gill Marshall-Andrews. Run, Mrs. O'Donnell. The avalanche is coming.

    Boris Karpa is a civil rights advocate from Bat-Yam, Israel. He does not and
    has never owned a gun.
    He is also a member of the Self-Defense Network:

    http://www.rkba.co.uk/sdn/

    The article is to be published on the SDN site.
     
  2. NukemJim

    NukemJim Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,201
    Oh, how I hope you are right about the course of the pebble(s):D !!!

    NukemJim
     
  3. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    By the way - did you join the Self-defense Network Mailing list yet?
     
  4. rrader

    rrader member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Does Karpa support RKBA for the Palestinians? Not a comment just curious.
     
  5. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    Rrader: Do you mean Palestinians as "Palestinian Arabs" (living in the West Bank) or as "Israeli Arabs" (living in Israel)?

    For A: Yes

    For B: Yes, and the small arms should be subsidized by the Israeli Government (giving out the HUGE amount of AK's, M-14's etc. we have to the citizenry)
     
  6. HBK

    HBK member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,430
    Location:
    A liberal hellhole: Olympia, WA.
    Very well-written, I hope he's right.
     
  7. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    I'm "he". Unforunately, nobody wants to publish it. Does anybody know a gun rag that will?
     
  8. Sir Galahad

    Sir Galahad member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    Camelot (er, Flagstaff, AZ)
    Just a bit of constructive criticism. Has nothing to do with the idea behind the article---I agree with that. Just formatting:

    1.) In the fantasy book you pull a quote from, you need to list title and author. In many cases, with copyright laws, you must do this. In some cases, you may have to get the author's permission to use a quote. Some "fair use" laws protect your use of a single sentence, but check further before submitting your article.

    2.) You need to define your sources better. Where does your information come from? Who said the quoted passages? At what time? In what context? Any referred to books, publications, etc. should be listed, to include page numbers. That can be footnoted, if need be.

    3.) Your referral to an incident in Versailles is not defined. Readers will want to know precisely what you are referring to.

    4.) List the title(s) of the 1989 work by Colin Greenwood. University work is usually titled, even if mere studies. You must write as if this is the first time the reader has heard of any book, quote, or publication you refer to.

    5.) The quote from the 1982 Senate Subcommitee report. Who said this? At what point? In what context? What was the actual name of the report? Pages where quote appears in transcript?

    This is what many editors will ask.
     
  9. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    3)Versailles is a typo.... Bellesiles.... freudian Slip.:banghead

    I need to check this for typos before I submit...
    Who should I submit to?:banghead:
     
  10. Greg L

    Greg L Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,381
    Location:
    Northern KY
    Couple of other nits to pick.. :)

    Typo at the start.

    Also I don't think that Rosie is married so Ms. is probably correct.

    Also
    :D



    After the obvious correction ;) should read something like "And just look what happened to Bellesiles when his claims of gun control working was irrefutably proved not only false but fradulent. He was fired from his tenured position at Emory (? was that where he was? ), stripped of various awards given to the book based on his deceptions, when subjected to serious peer review his excuses for why he can't back up his claims are the academic equivilent of "the dog ate my homework", etc (do some digging, you can easily find a couple of other bad example of what happened to him.)

    As to submission, send it to any editorial page of any newspaper you can find. Most of them won't like it or agree with it, but if they need some space to fill you might get it published as a guest column.

    Good luck,

    Greg
     
  11. rrader

    rrader member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    MicroBalrog:

    While I have to admire the guys intellectual integrity, I think that idea is insane.

    When a civilian population transforms itself into an army, as the Palestinian Arabs in the W. Bank and Gaza have, then the right to keep and bear arms is problematic, no nation can afford to allow an enemy army free access to arms, and Israel shouldn't, IMO.
     
  12. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    Uhm, apparently, most of the Palestinians do not have access to arms.

    In 1995, 80% of Palestinians polled opposed terrorism. I wonder what would have been if each of them had an AK.

    B - Israeli Arabs are not Palestinians, and most of them ARE NOT enemies of Israel.
     
  13. agricola

    agricola Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,928
    Location:
    Office of the Holy Inquisition, Vatican City
    some factual errors:

    i) its "Cambridge University" and not "University of Cambridge", and the really correct form is to find out what college Greenwood was from, or credit him as Cambridge University Press if they just published him. However, as I understand it Greenwood was an Oxford man. What Greenwood has stated and proved is that the bans has had no effect on criminal use of firearms, and that there are socio-economic reasons for rises and falls in crime, as well as the difference in murder rates between the US and the rest of the world.

    ii) "major media have started to publish more and more pro-gun articles" is a factually wrong statement - most of those that have been produced have been recreated here by Drizzt and the other c+p hounds.

    iii) Joyce Lee Malcolm did not prove "that the UK's draconian gun laws have lead to high levels of violence" - indeed, her conclusions were totally opposite to Greenwood's. Since Greenwood actually lived and worked here, and was arguing his case without any axe to grind, I'd side with him.
     
  14. braindead0

    braindead0 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,208
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    I think that would read better as:

    By 2003, it is clear to any that care to look, that the gun control lobbies
    of the western world, for the first time in nearly a century, are losing

    or

    By 2003, it is clear to anyone that cares to look, that the gun control lobbies
    of the western world, for the first time in nearly a century, are losing
    ground
     
  15. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    a)The two arguments are not really mutually exclusive....

    b)Who are c+p hounds and what is your point?
     
  16. rrader

    rrader member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Microbalrog:

    I asked you if this fellow supported giving arms to the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza, you answered in the affirmative. I never said they presently have access to guns, I never said that the majority of them supported terrorism although the figure of 80% opposed is wishfull thinking, 85% support continuation of the suicide bombings, and uhm... maybe you need some work on your reading comprehension skills.
     
  17. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    Perhaps I do. The 80% figure is from 1995 - a totally different era, when Arafat and his cronies did not yet have a stranglehold on the Palestinian era. The 85% figure is a modern one.
     
  18. trooper

    trooper Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    700
    Location:
    A small police station out in the German countrysi
    Boris,

    nice piece of work. I sincerely hope you're right in your assumptions about gun control dying in the future.

    But I've witnessed far too many folks never bothering with facts regarding this issue. Therefore I'm less optimistic about it.


    Regards,

    Trooper
     
  19. agricola

    agricola Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,928
    Location:
    Office of the Holy Inquisition, Vatican City
    My point was that there hasnt been any upswing in the posting of pro-gun articles in the mass media. Malcolm's op ed was on the BBC website, not (as far as I'm aware) on the BBC TV or Radio channels. Greenwood's conclusions are important because you misrepresent him by drawing his evidence into a "less guns = more violence" because he found that the availability of guns didnt have any effect on the level of crime.

    Cambridge University is the correct title btw and it is one of the first things noticed.
     
  20. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    "because he found that the availability of guns didnt have any effect on the level of crime."


    Actually, he found that gun control laws didn't have any positiveeffect on the level of crime - or at least that's what I've glean from the parts of his book I had access to.
     
  21. agricola

    agricola Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,928
    Location:
    Office of the Holy Inquisition, Vatican City
    93. Many of the international studies on the relationship between levels of firearms ownership and crime rates have value only if studied with great care taking proper account of the many variables. A time series study in this country shows that no such relationship exists here and a study of the more reliable cross sectional analyses fails to disclose sufficient evidence of any such relationship and tends to disprove it.


    94. Attempts have been made throughout this century to reduce levels of crime generally and levels of violent crime in particular by imposing strict controls on access to firearms. These have been applied in most parts the world and over a long period. There has yet to be a single follow-up study which shows that the imposition of controls on firearms, or the tightening of existing controls, has caused any reduction in the use of firearms in crime over time in any particular country or more generally.


    95. One of the most significant pieces of research undertaken by the Home Office might offer some explanation for this. In 1996, in response to requests from the Cullen Inquiry, the Home Office conducted a survey of firearms homicides.


    http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/95ap25.htm
     
  22. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    There has yet to be a single follow-up study which shows that the imposition of controls on firearms, or the tightening of existing controls, has caused any reduction in the use of firearms in crime over time in any particular country or more generally.
     
  23. agricola

    agricola Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,928
    Location:
    Office of the Holy Inquisition, Vatican City
    micro,

    what you said he said:

    Actually, he found that gun control laws didn't have any positiveeffect on the level of crime - or at least that's what I've glean from the parts of his book I had access to.

    is not what you've highlighted:

    There has yet to be a single follow-up study which shows that the imposition of controls on firearms, or the tightening of existing controls, has caused any reduction in the use of firearms in crime over time in any particular country or more generally.

    he found that noone had produced a study that had shown a drop in firearm crime after a ban - NOT that he had found that bans never worked. The difference is small, but significant given what he wrote in the preceding bullet-point.
     
  24. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    But it still puts a cramp in the idea that "bans decrease crime", wouldn't you agree?
     
  25. agricola

    agricola Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,928
    Location:
    Office of the Holy Inquisition, Vatican City
    yes, but misquoting him to make a point just detracts from your own work and gives critics an easy shot.

    edit: and Greenwood does pretty much wipe out any "less guns = more crime" points that you or others wish to make with regard to the UK.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page