Finally asked for my CHP

[coloradokevin]

...The body language of these two officers insinuates that if I hadn't of been able to produce my permit, I'd have been cuffed and stuffed; maybe with a bit of prejudice.

Bottom line, I appreciate them doing their job (especially with the influx of wannabe gangbangers around here), but professional courtesy goes a long way. If I was really up to no good, would I really be dumb enough to open carry a shiny revolver in a shiny leather holster in broad daylight right in front of 2 LEOs? In my opinion, there was no need to speak to me in a condescending fashion, nor to approach me in such an aggressive fashion. The officer I spoke to directly was ready for a gunfight.

Don't read too much into the body language thing. Police officers are trained in tactics for "field interview" situations, with an emphasis on being able to do their jobs safely. It isn't about overtly aggressive behavior, but more about being able to survive if the situation goes sideways. If you were a police officer, would you rather put yourself in a tactically advantageous position as you approached an unknown armed person, or one in which you and your partner could be easily ambushed? It isn't like he drew his gun on you from behind cover and ordered you to the ground, or held his hand firmly on his gun while he spoke to you... From your description it sounds as if his partner merely stood off to the side, just as a "cover officer" is trained to do during a contact.

After doing this job for a while, I've found that it is almost second nature for me to adjust my stance while talking to people, or not stand in front of a door that I'm knocking on. I am polite to the people I deal with, and I don't try to make law-abiding citizens feel like criminals. But, I still approach each situation with due caution, especially if I already know that the subject of a contact is armed!

The officers didn't know who you were, or what you were doing, but they did know that you were armed. Based on your original post, it sounds as if they were polite enough in doing their jobs, and didn't detain you for an unreasonable amount of time.

As for the question of whether or not you would be "stupid enough" to do that in front of the police if you were a criminal, you might be surprised! A lot of criminals are really really stupid. I had someone shoplift in front of me at a 7-11 the other day, even after they turned around and saw me standing there in uniform. Some criminals are smart, but our jails and prisons are full of a whole lot of them who are not!

I don't appreciate being approached as though I'm on a felony traffic stop while I'm having lunch with my wife.

If that was the case, the officers would have called you out of your car at gun-point, handcuffed you and your wife (after possibly proning you out on the ground, depending on their method of performing a felony stop), and they would have done so as they pointed guns at you from a position of cover. I don't mean to seem critical of you here, but I think we should try to keep this in perspective! They clearly DID NOT treat you as if they were conducting a felny traffic stop!

 

[halfded]

Maybe write him off as a jerk and be on your way.

Done before my double stack and fries.

I think you need to grow a thicker skin, honestly. You just wanted to be called Sir? LOL.

No, that's not what I was referring to. Merely an example.

Agree with you about paying for the 'training' and license but still don't have any problem with an LEO asking to see my CHL if I effectively brandish a gun. Lots of crooks out there carrying who get caught like this all the time...as for the way he was dressed? Total red herring.

Let's get our facts straight here (and I'll cut you some slack since, in my personal opinion, you haven't been around long enough to be making such brass statements without doing your homework.) Going from open to concealed carry in VA is NOT A CRIME FOR THE LAST TIME!! Here's the definition of brandishing:

Main Entry: 1bran·dish
Pronunciation: \ˈbran-dish\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English braundisshen, from Anglo-French brandiss-, stem of brandir, from brant, braund sword, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English brand
Date: 14th century

1 : to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2 : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

As for the red herring comment, I don't follow. Maybe I"m missing the point but I don't see how I attempted to deceive the officer into thinking anything. Sorry if my style of dress doesn't fit with the elitist, upper crust mentality that only the wealthy should own firearms.

Sounds like you Texas guys are kinda sore that VA might actually have a little bit more lax laws than yours huh?

BTW, CHP is concealed handgun permit in VA.

Guess the traffic stop reference was a little extreme. Somehow in the course of this conversation it has gotten to be that I have some animosity toward these officers or LEOs in general. I DO NOT! I recognize they were doing their jobs, if not a bit overzealously. I just made comment that their interpersonal skills could be improved a little.

The main point of this thread was just to relate the experience I had for the education, information, and amusement of others. Looks like we've at least got the amusement part down huh?

 

[Alex23]

Lots of strawmen...

 

[Deanimator]

Not having a pop at you but I'd find a way to carry so as not to raise suspicion.

Neither he nor I live in Texas. We don't have the slightest duty to conform to Texas law. I certainly have no intention of doing so.

Nobody has to like the law, merely conform to it, nothing more nothing less.

The cop is free to dislike open carry. He's also free to keep those opinions to himself. If he can't do that, then it's "Am I free to leave, officer?" If not, it's "I have nothing further to say without my attorney present."

You're NOT going to lecture me against my will about something that's perfectly legal where I live. If you do, there will be negative consequences tailored to the magnitude of your contempt for the law. That's completely nonnegotiable.

 

[USAav8r]

From the op, it sounds like the only legitimate complaint is the LEO's attitude. Good enough, he has a crappy attitude. Those people are in every line of work. You really cant complain about posture or body language any more than you could complain that a LEO approached your car on a traffic stop with his gun hand free making you feel he might shoot you.
As far as the LEO "fishing for something", he is allowed to. It's called being a good cop. Sure, you think your tax dollars are better spent elsewhere. He pays taxes too. Fact is, it is very hard, if not impossible for there to be a happy medium between having a 100% free society and a 100% governed society.
I, having been a LEO can't stand the us vs. them mentality that some cops have and, I am by no means saying I agree with the way constitutional rights seem to be slipping away more and more each day.

 

[wtfd661]

I just made comment that their interpersonal skills could be improved a little.

So the whole point of your rant is that he wasn't polite enough for you. WOW, thank God you have never had a day when, whatever job you do, you have spoke to every single person courteously. Don't even try to attempt to say that you have. Everyone is human, give it a rest and move on with your life.

If nothing else though at least you gave the members here who are anti-cop some where were they could do some more LEO bashing and feel really good about themselves.

 

[ChaoSS]

ColoradoKevin and any other cops here, I have a question for you. Imagine that I and a friend are walking down the street one day and you decide to approach us for some reason. You begin to talk to me, and I face you, as my friend moves into position behind you, off to the side a bit. We politely ask you for your gun, for our own safety.

Sound good? Sound like something that you would be ok with? Of course not. So why do you think that when you do it to a civilian that you are just fishing with, that it is anything less than an intimidation tactic. Why should that be standard training?

 

[orionengnr]

He did his job and did it well.
Reminding you it's ready to expire isn't a bad thing

Since said expiration date is seven month out, I do not view that as a courtesy, but as an (ill-advised) attempt at intimidation.
How would you take it is you handed him your car's registration and he said "You do know this exires end of October, right?" I'd have laughed in his face.

 

[halfded]

Let me say this one last time. THIS WAS NOT A RANT!!! I've said that a number of times already. Just relating the experience and made COMMENT about the behavior of the officers.

Another thing I'd like to say: Please read ALL THE WAY THROUGH the ENTIRE THREAD before posting a reply. I keep repeating myself due people not reading follow up postings and making assumptions.

Like the post above; I told HIM that my permit expired in October, not the other way around. Yet there's been at least 3 posts about whether or not it was courteous of him or not to tell me.

I know I put this up for others to read and make comment/talk about, but READ IT FIRST!!

See!! Now I'm ranting.. Look what you guys started..

TO those that had something useful to say (regardless of whether you agree with my point of view or not), thank you.

To those that are flying through posts looking to make witty retorts and smart alecky, I'm better than you remarks, don't you have a caliber war to attend?

 

[ChaoSS]

Yeah, but I still don't think he should have reminded you that it was expiring soon.

 

[NavyLCDR]

don't you have a caliber war to attend?

No, but there is an open vs. concealed carry thread just calling my name!

 

[Ed4032]

You should be carrying a 45 because everyone knows it is a fact that anything else will just bounce off bare skin. Caliber war started ...

 

[Alex45ACP]

Alex45acp, don't agree with you at all on behalf of the many good LEO's that put it on the line (I know they aren't all heros, but from the good ones), you are welcome.

No I'm not a LEO, but it doesn't damage my rights at all to respect the good ones. Many of the most respected members of THR are or were LEO. Your simplistic view of the dangers of the profession and the risks routinely faced explain a poor understanding of what they must do to mitigate these risks and get home at night.

P.S. and if more of them died in the line of duty each year you would probably call them incompetent.

Logical fallacy: ad hominem.

Do you have a logically sound counter argument to my post?

 

[simulatedjim]

I think the whole situation could have been avoided by the OP carrying a glock or sig or hk but not a shiny revolver. I think they would have assumed some type of LEO with an auto.

 

[X-Rap]

A cop sees a gun IWB exposed then it gets covered up? I guess I can't blame them for asking for the permit, I've had it happen to me when I got out of my truck and was pulling on a jacket, cop drove around the corner and stopped, stood by his car and asked if I had a permit. I said yes and went to his car to give it to him and he said have a nice day. If the cop commenced to lecture me on how I was a danger to myself and others blah blah I would be pissed. Sounds like the OP's situation was much like mine so I don't see a big deal with it.
I would like to see VT.,AK. right to carry but until then it is a requirement to have a permit when in public and for a cop its part of his job.

 

[Deanimator]

A cop sees a gun IWB exposed then it gets covered up? I guess I can't blame them for asking for the permit, I've had it happen to me when I got out of my truck and was pulling on a jacket, cop drove around the corner and stopped, stood by his car and asked if I had a permit. I said yes and went to his car to give it to him and he said have a nice day. If the cop commenced to lecture me on how I was a danger to myself and others blah blah I would be pissed. Sounds like the OP's situation was much like mine so I don't see a big deal with it.

I had a similar situation in a Caribou Coffee. Things were reasonable until the cop started waxing ignorant about "inducing panic". I flat refused to back down, despite his juvenile attempts at intimidation. The Chief got a letter (with copy to my attorney) informing him that if that officer acted on his ignorance, bad things would happen.

If you're a cop and don't want to know the law you're ENFORCING RIGHT NOW, get another job or get a lawyer, a GOOD one. And if you want look like a horse's behind, justify your ignorance with "I'm a cop!".

 

[model of 1905]

Folks, try to remember that most cops think they are the "only ones".

 

[NavyLCDR]

I think the whole situation could have been avoided by the OP carrying a glock or sig or hk but not a shiny revolver. I think they would have assumed some type of LEO with an auto.

Carry a Taurus and you can "escape" before the cop can stop laughing!

 

[halfded]

Carry a Taurus and you can "escape" before the cop can stop laughing!

That hurt..

Funny, my Taurus never gave me any problems. A few of the S&W's on the other hand...

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Well I guess if you can't get a decent caliber war started ,a brand war will do!

 

[ChaoSS]

Brand wars happen when non Taurus owners get jealous and lash out.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

BTW, what were we talking about again?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Brand wars happen when non Taurus owners get jealous and lash out.

HAHA! My only carry gun at the moment is a Taurus PT-145. I don't like it though, the only thing it will shoot reliably is Hornady TAP. My all time favorite gun was a Taurus PT-92. I absolutely loved it. I lost it when my soon-to-be-ex wife sold it along with 12 other guns before the divorce trial .

I really want to get a PT-945 and replace the 92, too.

 

[ChaoSS]

My only experience with Taurus is with the revolvers, and from what I've heard, all the revolvers are great and the autos, not so much.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

sounds like you are in my neck of the woods? near fredericksburg? what type/county cop was it? the cops around here deal with more than you imagine i just got my bubble busted when they busted a club on rt 17 for amongst other things being a ms 13 hangout.