Finally asked for my CHP

[jimmyraythomason]

i just got my bubble busted when the busted a club on rt 17 for amongst other things being a ms 13 hangout.

I have no idea what you said but it SOUNDS bad!

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

lol i live between richmond and dc in what i considered a safe area. they busted a club recently for a variety of things drugs running a bawdy house and being an ms 13 hangout. and apparently there is a second club where they hang out. i suspect its the club where the "doorman is wearing an ar15 on a sling at the door. i like to think i can handle a fair amount of bad stuff. but with ms 13 you can't kill enough of em fast enough. i am greatly unhappy wife just got signed up for her class to get permit

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Okay maybe I'm dense but what the heck is "ms 13"?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

latino gang do not play well with others and you're not dense i hope you continue not to have to deal with them my idea of the right way to deal with them is definitely outside the constitution.

 

[Erik M]

The officer was just doing his job, I wouldnt take offense to him asking for your lisence. He doesnt have to have a conversation with you so I woudlnt take offense.

but with ms 13 you can't kill enough of em fast enough.

I diddnt know MS 13 was anywhere east of the missippi? man did this get off topic in a hurry.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i didn't know they had left dc i only brought it up cause i suspect the op is in my area/town

 

[ChaoSS]

MS 13 is pretty much anywhere and everywhere. It and it's offshoots make up a majority of hispanic gangs.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

MS 13 is pretty much anywhere and everywhere. It and it's offshoots make up a majority of hispanic gangs.

If we have any of them here,they are covert. I have heard of California's problems with Larasa(sp). but have never heard of MS13,thankfully.

 

[halfded]

I live in Fredericksburg, cassandrasdaddy.

I probably would be surprised to hear what they deal with. The newspaper must keep a lot under wraps

As far as tall the little latino gangbangers; my gun trumps your stupid machete. A lot of the latinos around here try to look hard, maybe pretending they're ms13, but if you just return the hard stare they give you they soften up pretty quick.

 

[ChaoSS]

It's not always "La Raza". They are sort of an umbrella organization. They are incredibly brutal. They have a large number of subordinate gangs however, and gangs that may not "report" to them but sort of pay homage to them, it's a weird organizational structure. Note, however, that you will often see the 13 incorporated into the graffiti anywhere that you have any significant hispanic gang presence.

 

[rswartsell]

Alex45acp,

I think a better question is whether you have anything other than a specious body count to support the contention (which I find arrogant and self serving) that being a LEO is little more dangerous than being an accountant and less so than delivering pizzas. Creating the fallacious argument that if a low paying delivery job is more dangerous, then being a cop isn't dangerous (non sequitur). I would say support your contention that being a cop isn't all that dangerous, but I have no interest in how it appears to you and how you might rhetorically support such a questionable viewpoint.

Academicians that arrive at "logical" deductions using rhetorical gymnastics remain less informed than those with practical experience regardless of how much latin they can spout. So I'll take a pass on the invitation to cross verbal swords with you and continue to grant much more weight to the observations of those with said experience.

You could win any number of pseudo-intellectual debates without knowing a damned thing about police work. An example of ad iudicium.

 

[AKElroy]

I'm sure someone will chime in and ask the necessity of carrying at a funeral.

Not me. Funerals are high-emotion environments; people are unpredictable enough in normal stress environments.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i live out past geico
real ms 13 ? good luck with that hard look. i grew up in anacostia from 75 to 79 before i moved up the hill across the river and lived in places where i answered the door for the pizza guy with a gun in my hand behind my back and wasn't scared. ms 13 scares me. you have a real beef with them its way past time to go to war.

what type of cop did you have your encounter with?

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm sure someone will chime in and ask the necessity of carrying at a funeral.

Ever hear of Westboro Baptist Church? That seems like a reason to carry at a funeral to me.

 

[Alex45ACP]

Alex45acp,

I think a better question is whether you have anything other than a specious body count to support the contention (which I find arrogant and self serving) that being a LEO is little more dangerous than being an accountant and less so than delivering pizzas. Creating the fallacious argument that if a low paying delivery job is more dangerous, then being a cop isn't dangerous (non sequitur). I would say support your contention that being a cop isn't all that dangerous, but I have no interest in how it appears to you and how you might rhetorically support such a questionable viewpoint.

Academicians that arrive at "logical" deductions using rhetorical gymnastics remain less informed than those with practical experience regardless of how much latin they can spout. So I'll take a pass on the invitation to cross verbal swords with you and continue to grant much more weight to the observations of those with said experience.

You could win any number of pseudo-intellectual debates without knowing a damned thing about police work. An example of ad iudicium.

Your post wasn't very coherent and you didn't really explain why you think I'm wrong. I didn't say that being a police officer isn't dangerous because delivering pizzas is more dangerous, I said it isn't dangerous because 57 out of ~700,000 is a very low number. I think looking at the number of people who die doing a job is a good way to judge how dangerous it is. Do you have some other method that you believe works better and disproves my conclusion?

How much police experience you have couldn't be less relevant to this debate. What matters is the statistics, which come from the FBI. Do you have any information that these statistics are inaccurate? I'm still not seeing any kind of logical counter argument coming from you. Would you like to try again?

 

[halfded]

Oops, it was Fredericksburg City PD. The Spotsylvania deputies are usually pretty friendly, but good luck out there in Stafford! Those guys are stiff!

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

the burg is getting different but i'm still surprised. unless you were in one of the stop and cop areas.
i like stafford they are tough though especially if you end up in court.
i get a ton of contact with stafford and fredericksburg, thankfully not from my misdeeds anymore but the kids i mentor. they both seem to still use common sense sometimes. like in that shooting at the waffle house. even though the shooter ran for a 1/2 hour whe n he returned and they examined the facts he got to go home no charges. and they aren't too quick to shoot. stafford is funny cause charlie jett still rolls on calls and all those boys pump iron together a couple of em are monsters. one of my knuckleheads tried to pick a fight with the biggest one. i saw the cop in court wanted to slap the boy . it was attempted suicide by cop.

 

[rswartsell]

Alex45acp,

In other threads you freely admit that a primary motivation for you to arm yourself is for protection from Agents of the State. This is at least mildly disturbing to me.

Rather than cherry picking your facts about "agents of the State" you could take the Bureau of Labor Statistics word for it here;

http://www.bls.gov
/oco/ocos160.htm

Work environment.

Police and detective work can be very dangerous and stressful. Police officers and detectives have one of the highest rates of on-the-job injury and illness. In addition to the obvious dangers of confrontations with criminals, police officers and detectives need to be constantly alert and ready to deal appropriately with a number of other threatening situations. Many law enforcement officers witness death and suffering resulting from accidents and criminal behavior. A career in law enforcement may take a toll on their private lives.


This seems perfectly obvious to me, but because I do not seem coherent to you, perhaps you are on some other wavelength. I can accept the word of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Perhaps because they are also "agents of the State" you might believe that the above is the result of some conspiracy to mislead the populous.

Regardless of this your analysis is simplistic in only looking at death rates as opposed to considering duty related fatality, injury and illness (including those resulting from prolonged stress). I still contend that you are presenting the conclusion and have used a specious support because of the above. Defend your conclusion if you believe anyone is interested.

P.S. If you decide to become a critic of LEO, demean their contributions to society by understating their personal sacrifice and generally dislike or disrespect them, then I contend that knowing something about their work is hardly irrelevant. Thinking that it is irrelevant is telling in and of itself.

 

[Deanimator]

P.S. If you decide to become a critic of LEO, demean their contributions to society by understating their personal sacrifice and generally dislike or disrespect them, then I contend that knowing something about their work is hardly irrelevant. Thinking that it is irrelevant is telling in and of itself.

Let's cut through all of the nonsense on both sides.

Police need to obey the law, the same as everyone else. Some of them don't agree. They need to not be LEOs. Some of them need not to be free to walk around in society.

Cops are welcome to their opinions about laws they don't like. They're also free not to share them with me. If they want to do so contrary to my wishes and at figurative or literal gun point, there needs to be a reckoning.

The bottom line: Obey the law, LEO or citizen. Do otherwise and expect problems, some of them big and nonrecoverable.

 

[X-Rap]

Agreed, also know that there are probably over a thousand different laws in the US regarding the authority to check a known armed individual for a permit.

 

[Deanimator]

Agreed, also know that there are probably over a thousand different laws in the US regarding the authority to check a known armed individual for a permit.

Regarding open carry in Ohio:

In Ohio there's no requirement for a license or permit to open carry. In fact, you don't need ANY sort of ID AT ALL. In Ohio open carry is not RAS of a crime. A cop can attempt to interact with you. Any such interaction is purely voluntary on your part. You're completely free to refuse that contact. If he detains you, with or without RAS, you have a legal duty to verbally identify yourself. If he detained you without RAS, you have every right to go after him, administratively, criminally and civilly.

Know the law.
Obey the law.
Don't let anybody violate your rights contrary to the law, citizen or LEO.

 

[rswartsell]

No problems here. I just don't get overly excited about one speaking to me. Follow your conscience on how much you want to speak with him.

 

[X-Rap]

The way I see it explained on the open carry forum, in Ohio the OP would have been in violation because you are not allowed to OC while in a vehicle.
This might be out dated law and if so my apologies but when you say know the law and obey the law it doesn't seem like you are applying it to this discussion.

 

[Deanimator]

The way I see it explained on the open carry forum, in Ohio the OP would have been in violation because you are not allowed to OC while in a vehicle.
This might be out dated law and if so my apologies but when you say know the law and obey the law it doesn't seem like you are applying it to this discussion.

Incorrect. In fact, you used to be REQUIRED to OC when in a vehicle.

In order to OC in a vehicle, you must have an Ohio CHL or recognized equivalent. If you have a CHL, when in a vehicle you may have your firearm

• in a holster on your body (concealed or not)
• in a closed (doesn't have to be locked or lockable) glove box or center console
• in a closed container (purse, briefcase, guncase, etc.) with a closing mechanism (zipper, catches, etc.) of some sort
• in a locked container not in plain sight

 

[Alex45ACP]

Alex45acp,

In other threads you freely admit that a primary motivation for you to arm yourself is for protection from Agents of the State. This is at least mildly disturbing to me.

Logical fallacy: ad hominem.

Rather than cherry picking your facts about "agents of the State" you could take the Bureau of Labor Statistics word for it here;

http://www.bls.gov
/oco/ocos160.htm

Work environment.

Police and detective work can be very dangerous and stressful. Police officers and detectives have one of the highest rates of on-the-job injury and illness. In addition to the obvious dangers of confrontations with criminals, police officers and detectives need to be constantly alert and ready to deal appropriately with a number of other threatening situations. Many law enforcement officers witness death and suffering resulting from accidents and criminal behavior. A career in law enforcement may take a toll on their private lives.

I don't necessarily disagree with this; it can be a very dangerous line of work. But it usually isn't. Like I said before, it is more dangerous than being an accountant, but when you look at the FBI statistics it's not nearly as dangerous as many people make it out to be. 57 out of ~700,000 is a very low number.

And again, they accept these small risks when they take the job. Nobody is forcing them into it.

This seems perfectly obvious to me, but because I do not seem coherent to you, perhaps you are on some other wavelength. I can accept the word of the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Do you also accept the word of the FBI, whose statistics show that the job is not very dangerous overall?

Perhaps because they are also "agents of the State" you might believe that the above is the result of some conspiracy to mislead the populous.

Logical fallacy: ad hominem.

Regardless of this your analysis is simplistic in only looking at death rates as opposed to considering duty related fatality, injury and illness (including those resulting from prolonged stress). I still contend that you are presenting the conclusion and have used a specious support because of the above. Defend your conclusion if you believe anyone is interested.

I am looking at duty related fatalities. My entire point is that they are low; therefore the job isn't very dangerous. I am only looking at the numbers of LEOs killed on the job in violent confrontations because those are the only ones relevant to this discussion. Stress-related illnesses are irrelevant. Injury rates may be relevant, but only life-threatening injuries sustained on the job in violent confrontations with criminals.

P.S. If you decide to become a critic of LEO, demean their contributions to society by understating their personal sacrifice and generally dislike or disrespect them, then I contend that knowing something about their work is hardly irrelevant. Thinking that it is irrelevant is telling in and of itself.

Logical fallacy: red herring. This discussion is not about disrespecting the police, it's about the dangers of police work and how people grealy overstate them to justify police militarization and other excesses.