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Finally got pics of Jap rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Dirtlover, Feb 26, 2009.

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  1. Dirtlover

    Dirtlover Member

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    Okay, I just now got the pictures up of the rifle I asked about 2 weeks ago.
    Hope someone can identify.
    The mum is ground off and one thing I notice that is different than other pictures I have seen is there seems to be less wood on the barrel.

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  2. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    I'm sure a more knowledgable person will come forward soon, but this appears to me to be a type 99 WWII vintage rifle that has had the stock modified (butchered) .

    Mums were ground off after the war to signify they were no longer the property of the emperor . Stocks were cut down by people who used them for hunting and didn't want the extra weight . Not much collector value if any.
     
  3. JWF III

    JWF III Member

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    That's what I was thinking. At least the main part of the sights (save the airplane sights) are still intact, and the barrel hasn't been cut. Find yourself a stock, handgaurd, and all the barrel rings. You'll have a nice little weekend project. The metal looks in pretty good condition in the pics from what I can tell.

    Wyman

    ETA-After further review, looking at the rear sight, it's definently a 99.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  4. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

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    it probably killed an american at some time.
     
  5. Dirtlover

    Dirtlover Member

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    That makes sense, that is why it looks different...the front has been taken off.
    Is there someplace that sells parts to restore?
     
  6. jermx472

    jermx472 Member

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    i believe it is a type 99. i see that the chrysanthemum insignia is filed off the top of the reciever. this was done to remove the emporors family symbol so it would not be dishonored.
     
  7. BCCL

    BCCL Member

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    It is an Arisaka T-99 7.7mm, that has had the stock sporterized.

    Here is mine with the full original stock, brought back from WWII by my Uncle.

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    Ammo can be hard to find and expensive, and 7.7 ammo for Japanese machine guns is not safe to fire in an Arisaka.

    Brass can be fire formed from .30-06.
     
  8. MeanGreenZ71

    MeanGreenZ71 Member

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    It is an Arisaka T-99 7.7mm, that has had the stock sporterized.

    Here is mine with the full original stock, brought back from WWII by my Uncle.



    Ammo can be hard to find and expensive, and 7.7 ammo for Japanese machine guns is not safe to fire in an Arisaka.

    Brass can be fire formed from .30-06.

    My dad bought one a few months back from an estate auction. It is in great shape and looks to be 100% original. He did some research because he loves WWII military rifles. All I know about it is that a box of cheaper ammo is about $30-35 or so IIRC.
     
  9. BCCL

    BCCL Member

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    I haven't tried to get ammo for mine in about 20 years, but Norma used to load some for it, but it was 20+ dollars back then.

    A local guy used to make rounds for it from .30-06, but I haven't seen any of those in a long time.

    I've relegated mine to wall hanger status, because one of the screws that hold the action in the stock is gone and the bolt have a little to much play when the gun is cocked and ready to fire.
     
  10. Ian

    Ian Member

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    This particular rifle was made at Nagoya arsenal during the sixth production series, or about halfway through the overall production of Type 99s there. It's impossible to date Arisaka manufacture, though, as all the records were destroyed by American bombing.

    Basically, the first symbol on the side of the receiver is the series mark, the arabic numbers are the serial number (each series ended at #99,999), and the final symbol is the arsenal mark.

    The lack of wings on the rear sight is probably correct and how the gun was made, as the AA wings were dropped form production fairly early on. It's too bad the stock was chopped down, as that pretty much kills the collector value on what otherwise would be a nice example of an Arisaka. If you do try to restore it, you'll need a new stock, upper handguard, rear sling swivel, front and rear bands, and cleaning rod - and all of those parts changed over the course of production, so you'll need the correct variant of each one.
     
  11. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    You can pull the series number off the rifle which will give you a date range, and you can infer approximately when it was made by features. Post a picture of the right side of the stock and I may be able to tell you a bit more. I'm particularly interested in the area near the crosspiece at the center.

    It's clearly a Type 99. Yours is a mid-war example, produced in 1942 or 1943 by my reckoning. They only started dropping features after Pearl Harbor. Guns made through 1941 generally have all the original features. After 1943, they realized they were losing and started moving increasingly towards last ditch. Knowing the timeline of the war will give you the timeline for when quality began to decline.

    If I were to guess, I would guess late 1942.

    I have a Series 21 Kokura (the second series Kokura produced). I'd estimate it to be from 1941. It still has its antiaircraft sights. This is mine. It was found on Okinawa by my grandfather:

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    Notice, just above and rear of the crosspiece, you will see a small hole in the stock. This is indicative of early production. This vent hole was eliminated on mid-war rifles.

    This site will prove valuable for anyone trying to research the markings on these rifles: http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html
     
  12. Dirtlover

    Dirtlover Member

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    Thanks everyone, you guys definately know your guns. I am a little upset about it being sportarized, I have no clue as to who did this or when, all I know is it was given to me when I was around 10 from a great Uncle, and I just said cool, didn't ask questions. It has been in the attic and now that I have found it again I was curious as to the origin and such.

    Mike, I will post some right sided pics later.

    So this gun is basically just a looker and not a shooter?
    And what are the fighting fish?
     
  13. BCCL

    BCCL Member

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    I have had trouble identifying the symbol on mine just to the right of the Nagoya Arsenal mark.

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    Full shot with serial number.

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  14. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    Hard to tell. Mine has one or two unreadable markings as well. That's possibly a crude series mark.

    These rifles were produced in series of 100,000. Yours was late in the series, so it's likely the dies used to stamp them were more worn.

    Here's mine:

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    I had a lot of trouble reading the series mark. It was either 1 or 21. Kokura didn't make a series 1, though, so that settled it.

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    For the record, the sight pictures are now on Wikipedia, lest anyone claim I stole them. I uploaded them to replace an earlier, less-detailed picture of a sight with the calipers missing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  15. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

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    Nice thread timing, I acquired one of these this week as well. A friend found it at a local Gander Mountain marked as an "unknown Mauser"... for $49 bucks!
    This one is still equipped with the elusive bolt cover, which matches the gun. It's a Kokura Arsenal, and tenth series if I'm reading the prefix correctly.

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  16. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    "Unknown Mauser". Well, at least they got that part right. You'd think with the Japanese markings they'd have figured it out.

    Kokura did not make a series 10. They started at series 20 and ran through 25 for Type 99's, so place your number in that range. Series 10 was assigned to Nagoya arsenal.

    If you look on my gun, the series mark is the circular mark just left of the serial number. The series mark on mine is hard to read. However, I believe it to be 21 for a number of reasons. One is that it fairly well matches the simplistic series 21 marking. The other is that it is clearly an early production example, retaining the antiaircraft sights and the hole in the stock just rear of the crosspiece.

    Check this link for information on the Japanese markings specific to Arisakas. It also gives important series information: http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html
     
  17. jacob.elliott

    jacob.elliott Member

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    This is my Type 38 in 6.5 Jap. the only thing military left is the action though. sporter stock and 18 inch barrel DSC00001.JPG

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    correction i looked mine up and it is a type44 that explains the 18 inch barrel!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2009
  18. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

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    I love Type 99 early war production rifles. Love the cartridge. It was basically what .303 British should have become if they'd updated the cartridge to rimless design.

    They can be quite accurate. Though they are very expensive to shoot (even if you reload it's not cheap).

    Also very strong action. Too bad somebody messed up the stock.
     
  19. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    Well, if you reload, it's not so bad. They take the .303's .311 bullets. You can basically copy the entire .303 loadout onto a 7.7x58 case. Same goes for 7.62x54R, as the bullets and powder charges are in the same range.
     
  20. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

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    Thanks for the info. Yes, I had already visited the markings site... it just that the mark is so small and it was the closest I could see; gotta get a magnifier.

    Mine also has the stock hole, aircraft sights, and the monopod mount.
     
  21. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    wow zoom6zoom, that is an awesome find!! It's beautiful.
     
  22. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

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    Well, Mr. Wolf, I have to that may be true, I'm more concerned with the fact that the casings are absurd in price.
     
  23. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    Well, it's bolt action. It doesn't mutilate the brass. You can get several reloads out of a single casing. Look at it this way, though: you need to shoot it, at least once. Even if you only buy 1 box of ammo for it, and never use it again, it wouldn't be right to never know how it shoots.
     
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