Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Phydeaux642, Sep 4, 2009.
That's just for one state. The vast majority have no safety.
Scandium 360PD. 11.7 oz unloaded. Custom Cocobolo grips.
It's not like the Kahr 9mm ammo has a huge variance in bullet weight that it will work with, reliably. Unlike a revolver, I can't load 200 grain
bullets in a Kahr, or, for that matter 80 grain bullets, like I can in .357, in a revolver.
I own, and shoot both, and, I like the PM9, mainly because I can shoot it better, it's flatter, and easier to conceal, despite the 5 oz weight difference.
However, for sweat pants carry to take out the trash, the .357 gets the nod...
Model 38 lives in my pocket. I would like a j-frame with magnum capabilities, but , for now, I have my ruger Sp101 for when I leave civilization.
I have the 642 without the lock...will not buy one with a lock...no problem.
M40 does not have a lock either..will not buy one with a lock...no problem.
Everyone should carry what they are comfortable with. In reality everything that has been mentioned has a pretty good track record. It is all about what you like.
Prosser, What's the recoil like shooting .357 Magnums out of an 11oz+ gun? The recoil is snappy in the light LCP but that is .380ACP, not .357M. I can't even imagine....
It is the most painful gun I've ever fired, and, that's saying a lot.
It's so light that the really heavy recoiling rounds move the gun at about 45-50 fps into your hand, with a twist, and, about 25 ft lbs of energy. The result is cut fingers, a flinch, palm damage that can last a week, pretty much horrible.
My favorite gun is a .475 Linebaugh. It moves at only 28 fps in recoil, though with twice the ft-lbs, and, is a joy to shoot in comparison.
From another day:
"I went to the range with a bunch of .357 ammo.
Actually got to go shooting yesterday. I concentrated on two things:
FA 83 22lr and finding a load I could fire with some sort of accuracy out of my 360PD with my Hogue Monogrip on it:
I'll post pics of the targets in a bit.
The goal was to fire enough .357, and 38 through the gun to pick a load for carry. Also, to get familiar with the gun.
Prior to the mongrip, the gun was unshootable with .357, cutting my finger on the first shot.
Now, it just beats me up. It requires a death grip to shoot, and, with the heavy trigger pull, double action, is not a candidate for target gun of the month. Shooting was done at 15 yards.
My right hand is very sore from the pounding it took, and,
like a real brain, I forgot my shooting gloves.
I shot a minimum of ten rounds of each load.
Range notes on .357 ammo extended grip
Federal Personal defense 357 158 grain hp 1240 fps
Heavy recoil, last shot came out of time
Not enough rounds to really test
Recoils hard, have numb trigger finger, but, not cut
Hornady158 grain JHP XTP 1250 fps
Grouped really high takes death grip to shoot near accurately
American Eagle 130 grain FMJ
really mild, but a bit low
Haven’t shot a decent group yet.
Federal Premium Low recoil .357 130 grain HPs 1300 fps?
Low recoil compared to what?
Hurt my hand.
Fioochi 357 Magnum 148 grain 1300 fps
Either my hand is really getting used to getting hammered, or, I like this one. Hits but it’s not sharp. Don't think it's that fast out of a snub...
Fusion 357 mag 158 grain hps at 1240 fps
Very heavy recoiling. Hurt hand.
Heavy 38 special Plus P 158 item 20A Buffalobore 1040 fps
Still pretty heavy recoil. Second favorite, behind Fioochi.
Seems the fiocchi recoils a bit less then the buffalobore 38, or at least sort of slower.
I decided that was enough, and, I have 5 more, heavier 357 loads I was going to try, but, didn't, since my hand hurt. I started off shooting about 10 rounds of .475, thinking that would get me ready for the 360PD, 357. Didn't work that way.
At 15 yards, I shot patterns, not groups. Also, after death gripping the 360PD, I doubled my target grade trigger Kimber, and, the range guy didn't like that much. Same problem with the .475 Linebaugh, with 400 grain XTP's, and a pretty good group, but flew the last shot. About 2".
The Freedom Arms 83 22lr, grouped around an inch, or less, with CCI Blazer 40 grain ammunition. The trigger is the standard 5 pound FA trigger, and, it's really sort of weird having a 22lr that has a much heavier trigger pull then a FA 83 .475 Linebaugh.
Anyway, it was great to get out and shoot.Thanks for the response. I had a bunch more stuff to try, but, I figure for now, either the Corbon 125's at 1204 fps, chronographed, or, the Fioochi 147 .357 mag loads will do the
trick. Oddly enough they seem to recoil about the same as the 158 grain Plus P buffalobore, which is a very effective snubby round, penetrating around 14" opening up well, and moving about 1040 fps out of an actual snub. I think the Fioochi is probably going the same, or slightly slower.
I will look into the short barrel stuff. Must be a reason I haven't tried it. This gun is a nice, light, pocket carry gun.
For IWB, or thunderwear, I'm looking at a 3" Model 60, Glock 30, or CCO style 1911, converted to .475 JRH short.
I 'tapered' the HM grip so it doesn't stick out as much, and print, when carried in thunderwear, or whatever the new name is for the stuff, smartcarry, I think.
I like the extra velocity I get from the 158 Item No. 20A/20 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P.--G.C. (1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs.)
S&W mod. 60, 2 inch—1040 fps (379 ft. lbs.)
I'll use that, or the 147 grain Fioochi. Both hammer me pretty good, far harder then the standard 38.
I also picked up these:
Item No. 19C/20 158 gr. JHC (1475 fps ME 763 ft. lbs.)
Item No. 19D/20 125 gr. JHC (1700 fps ME 802 ft lbs.)
But, decided my hand was hamburger, and, wanted to shoot something civilized, like 400 grain bullets at 1350 fps...
1. 3 inch S&W J frame
a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1476 fps
I'd be real intrested if out of the snub barrel, if the above loads drop 100 feet, how much difference in recoil is really there."
Please note that unless chronographed, the short barrel on these guns REALLY rob .357 of being .357. If you get over 1200 fps, with ANY .357 load in a 1.8" barrel, your REAL lucky.
I have a J frame and a PM9
Interesting that the width difference is not a big deal
The reason why I carry the Kahr more is not because of capacity. The reason is that when it prints, and all guns do, it is not as obvious a gun. Its squareness can be mistaken for most anything
This is all true, but for me a J-Frame still rides better in the pocket and draws better from the pocket.
I sold my PM9 as it wouldn't reliably feed JHP ammo, even after a trip back to Kahr.
Still, the PM9 is a pleasure to shoot and one day I'll probably try another one. I'm a J-Frame guy for my pocket carry needs for now.
of this thread for those seeking a pocket carry handgun is that all these folks have tried many different revolvers and semi-autos and have culled it down to those aforementioned. All excellent tried and trued choices. You can't beat a J frame though because even on a budget you can find one to fit your pocket... book rolleyes.
I am fortunate to be able to afford the following pocket guns, none would I like divest myself of and mostly I carry a J frame or the Seecamp, just because it is so small and light.
J Frame M&P 340 with CT Grips (still my alltime favorite after almost three years).
J Frame 642 with CT Grips (bedside)
J Frame M60 Classic no lock with a hammer, would be great O or IWB, not pocket. Desk drawer.
Seecamp LWS 380
Good thread guys and great points all.
This is rhe perfect pocket gun
I just picked up a Ruger LCP $309 NIB. I'm more accurate with it than with my S&W model 36. It's lighter than my snubby so I can slip it into a pocket of my cargo shorts and it's not pulling my shorts down. In jeans it's almost always my Kahr K9 IWB.
Like you I've looked at several carry options but I always come back to a J frame, usually the M642-1. Now I have 4 J frames so when I get the itch to change my carry gun I can!! LOL.
I won't own a Kahr. I love the J-frames, but am also intrigued a bit by the small pocket .380's. I am going to try a Keltec sometime here soon. I wish I could find a reasonably priced M&P 340 or 360 for the .357...they are just a bit too pricey for me right now. Five rounds of .357 would make me perfectly comfortable.
Why won't you own a Kahr? Because of the Moonies?
Kahrs are the only line we carrry that we can sell to non Mil/Le, we have good prices on the PM9's(all 4 flavors) We never raised our prices do to the "madness"
I own and carry both J frames and Pm9....they are both great but stick with the J frame
Aside from the obvious "revolver versus semi-auto issue", why do you prefer the J frame over the higher capacity PM9? Does it just carry better for you? Since you said they are both "great", I'm taking that to mean they are as equally reliable.
yes, I find for me with my atire(shorts or carharts), for either pocket or other carry, the J frame just works best for me. I will also give it the nod that I personal feel that it will go bang bang for sure....more than a Pm9 that sat in my pocket for months without even the lint blown out
I also own/carry a 642. It was affordable and meets my needs.
I have most the the J-frames, and just added a 637 and a 442 with performance center super tuned triggers. Sweet!
And, that's the gun's fault? Semi-auto, revolver, whatever. Clean your carry gun at least once a month whether you shoot it or not. Only takes a few minutes as I'm not talking about a detailed cleaning. Heck, I take it out more than once a month just to wipe it down to keep the finish in top trim.
that was humor.....
but there is alot of truth to it, like it or not a wheelgun has the edge in relaiblity when uncared for more so than a semi....that was my real point
Not at all. I won't own a Kahr because I had a very poor experience with the CW .40 we did buy. Not only was the gun plagued with issues (averaged about 5 failures to feed, eject, etc. per mag, regardless of which mags we tried), but the company offered terrible customer service as well. I won't put up with that kind of treatment, and so, no more Kahr.
Smith and Wesson, in contrast, has offered me seriously excellent customer service and a quality product. Give me a J-Frame any day.
Boberg or Bust.
I prefer an all steel snubby like the S&W bodyguard or my Ruger LCP to my 642.
I know you are after pocket carry, but personally I would say get a really comfortable IWB rig that hides well and up your pistol size a bit. You can get a CW9 for much less than a PM9. Put that in a really good, tuckable holster like the Crossbreed SuperTuck and you will be good to go. I occasionally carry a pistol in my pocket, but it is not the best arrangement when you actually need to draw the gun under stress. A lot of potential for it to snag on the way out. If you do that get a pocket holster, and be sure to practice drawing enough to make certain there are no issues with it hanging up on the way out.
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