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Fingerprint card problem due to ccp virus

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by 748, May 23, 2020.

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  1. 748

    748 member

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    I have some form ones all ready to snail mail off but the local sheriff's office isn't doing additional services like finger print cards because of the virus scare.
    Should I just buy an ink pad and do them my self?
    But then what to do about the portion of the form that the law enforcement agency fills out?
     
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  2. mustbe

    mustbe Member

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    You can roll your own with no problems. I filled out the form with info I found on the web on my last three stamps.

    I'll find the link and post it in a little bit.
     
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  3. mustbe

    mustbe Member

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  4. 748

    748 member

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    Hey that's where I got my cards from last time, guess I'll grab an ink pad and have at it.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  5. 748

    748 member

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    I bought a solvent trap.
    Going to put it on an eForm1 and send off some finger prints and pics.
    But man I need a hair cut before I get those passport pics.
    I have silencers waiting on form 4s, one is 5 months out and the other had been out for 3 months, I bet the eForm 1 solvent trap will come back well before the eForm 4 I sent off 5 months ago comes back.
     
  6. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    There are no eForm 4's since 2016......only paper.
     
  7. 748

    748 member

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    Maybe that's why the wait time on a paper form 4 is 2 months less.
     
  8. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Average wait time on a paper Form 4 is seven months.
    Average wait time on a paper Form 1 is three months.
    Average wait time on a eForm 1 is less than a month.

    Whoever told you a paper Form 4 is "two months less" doesn't know what they are talking about. It is the longest processing time of all.
    https://www.atf.gov/file/109676/download
     
  9. 748

    748 member

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    Silencer shop is showing around a 200 day wait on paper from 4 and 250+ day wait on eform 4 and their tracker is updated just about daily.
     
  10. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Oh good grief. That right there should tell you all you need to know about the accuracy of NFA Tracker.....its useless.:rofl:

    ATF stopped eForm 4's OVER SIX YEARS AGO........did you read this tidbit at the bottom of that page?

     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  11. 748

    748 member

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    I think by eform they mean the silencer store app form 4, which is what all my silencers since 2017 have been on.
    The silencer shop app form 4 still takes about 250 to 300 days.
    They have no need to bring back the old dot gov eForm 4, the silencer shop app is way better.
     
  12. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    This is just a heads up about doing your own fingerprints:

    I know that people have been doing their own for awhile, but there have been posts going around on forums as of April 2020, that ATF is rejecting fingerprints done by individuals. Before I sent my prints off for my eform in late April 2020, I called the ATF 3 times (to get different answers) and all 3, including an Expert, said that fingerprints have to be done on an official card (not a 528 you print yourself) and they have to be done by an agency (like LEO or contractor).

    I realize some folks will still do their own, but there is a chance they could be rejected.

    That said, try calling local PDs in small towns.
     
  13. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    Considering that the ATF will send the fingerprint cards for free, there really isn't a good reason to do something weird, like printing your own. I was surprised how quickly the cards arrived, it took only four days from request to mailbox.
     
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  14. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Again, NO. The Form 4 submitted by Silencer Shop is a PAPER Form 4. It's PAPER because ATF stopped the eForm 4's over six years ago.
    <----Silencer Shop Powered By Dealer btw.


    Well, considering the average Form 4 processing time for a PAPER Form 4 is seven months according to ATF, the info at NFA Tracker seems to be a bit outdated/inaccurate/bogus, huh?;) True, Silencer Shop updates the data from NFA Tracker daily. But garbage in, garbage out. NFA Tracker relies on information submitted by users.....NOT Silencer Shop.
    Silencer Shop has no earthly idea how fast their Form 4's are processed by NFA Branch.....because once they submit your F4 and note "check cashed".......ATF doesn't provide any other update to SS or the receiving "Powered By Dealer". Silencer Shop doesn't get notified by anyone when the stamp is issued.


    Please stop. I don't know where you are getting your information, but I would never visit that forum or speak to that person again....'cause they are completely and wholly ignorant of all things NFA as well as what Silencer Shop actually does. If it's just your opinion you need to understand why eForms is better than paper. That you believe SS has an app, that eForm 4's are being processed tells me you are VERY confused or ill informed about the realities of NFA transfers.
    1. eForms (for any NFA form) eliminates the slowest step in the process, the data entry clerk typing your NFA form info into their system. Eforms eliminates that step, reducing wait times by as much as 80%.
    2. Five minutes of Googling or reading threads in this subforum will show how fast eForms processing is vs paper. It's no contest.
    3. "The Silencer Shop app"? The only "app" they have is the one that takes your photos.....that's it. Nothing else.
    4. Silencer Shop DOES make the process somewhat easier by having a fingerprint scanning kiosk and the cellphone photo app. It ain't magic, being that you can roll and submit your own prints and there are several free cellphone apps for taking a passport quality "selfie".

    Want to know the ACTUAL NFA processing times as audited by the OMB?
    Paper NFA Forms:https://www.atf.gov/file/109676/download
    eForms: https://www.atf.gov/file/130416/download Note DAYS, not weeks or months.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  15. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Do you have a link?
    I ask because in several hundred fingerprint cards not a one has been rejected by ATF.



    Absolutely, positively, 100% false.
    The only requirement in 41F is that someone be "properly equipped" ......having an ink pad and the correct FBI FD 258LE-NFA fingerprint card. Understanding how to roll your own fingerprints and how to fill out the card correctly can be found on numerous websites.





    In over a thousand NFA transfers, pre41F, post 41F.............zero have had their prints rejected. And I'm not the only FFL/SOT with that experience.
    Do I believe that there are a lot of folks doing their own eForm 1 that don't know how to follow instructions or bother reading those instructions? Oh heck yeah.
     
  16. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    I 100% understand. Prior to April 2020, I called the atf and they said you could print a 528 and do the prints yourself. Last month however, everyone I talked to said that it had to be an officially printed form and that you could not do them yourself.

    I personally could have done a better job than the officer who did my prints. That said, if you call and ask the ATF, as of this month, they will tell you what I have just stated.

    the problem is, if you do them yourself, is that “place of employment and address,” is the person doing the fingerprints. If it’s you and your address, then per what I was told on the phone, you’re going to get rejected.
     
  17. 748

    748 member

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    If the silencer shop app is "just them sending a paper form 4 for you" then why don't I have to submit finger prints and a picture every time?

    According to a 2019 ATF news letter the top 2 reasons why form 4 and form ones are delayed or not approved is the picture and fingerprint cars. The pictures not being included at all or the pictures are not the correct format. The fingerprint cards also not being included at all, the hand written part not filled out correctly.

    It appears the fingerprint cards have to be done by law enforcement when you are doing an explosives application.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  18. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    You keep saying "528".........its FD258LE.


    NEVER take the verbal advice of anyone at ATF as gospel. In this case its CLEARLY NOT REQUIRED to have an LE agency roll your prints. Please read 41F yourself. Then call ATF back and have them read the same passage of 41F with you.

    FYI, the largest distributor of silencers in the country, Silencer Shop also submits more Form 4's than anyone else..........99% are scanned on one of their fingerprint kiosks AND NOT BY LE.

    Horsehockey. Feel free to tell the ATF nitwit that thats coming direct from me. They know my phone#.;)

    You need to read this thread at AR15. The moderator has a great "How To" on NFA submissions:https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Work-In-Progress-new-F1-F4-guide-for-41F-submissions/17-465636/
     
  19. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Because Silencer Shop keeps a copy of your fingerprints and photo.......and prints them out on PAPER when they submit your Form 4.


    You would be surprised at how many people refuse to read the instructions printed om every F1/F4 that tell you exactly how to fill out and submit the form.
    For my nonSS customers I give them a checklist of each step they need to do, where to sign, including how to fill out the FD258LE card.......some ignore it and then wonder why they got rejected.


    Correct.
    Back when Silencer Shop first started putting their kiosks in, Silencerco (a manufacturer) were in a little snit fit. When the largest distributor of silencers in the country doesn't stock the largest manufacturer of silencers........there's ego's at play. SiCo's dimwit PR department sent out a press release to thousands of dealers warning them that Silencer Shops fingerprint kiosk wasn't legal to scan F1/F4 fingerprints. Dimwits at SiCo were reading the fingerprint requirements for Explosives licensing, not NFA transfers. :rofl:

    A little over a year later SiCo's board cleaned house, firing the CEO/Founder and President. Shortly after, they were again being distributed by Silencer Shop.
     
  20. 748

    748 member

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    If they were smart they would try to work with SS shop and their kisok, that kisok is so far outside what a silencer manufacturer normally does I'm surprised anyone ever did it and that the atf went along with it.
     
  21. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Who is "they"?
    If ATF, they already do and have done so for six years now.
    If you mean Silencerco, read the last line in post #19.


    Well, Silencer Shop is not a manufacturer, but licensed as a dealer and acts as a distributor.
    While no other distributor does a kiosk, plenty of dealers offer their own fingerprint scanning in house.
    Not sure why you think ATF "went along with it" since its clearly within the requirements of 41F. ATF doesn't get to say no.
     
  22. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    this is far from my first NFA item. It would have been the first time doing my own prints, but when I double checked and they thrice said “no,” and I read on a couple forums about recent denials...

    My local law enforcement does the prints for free, so it’s not a real issue for me.

    Maybe I’ll do my own on my next form 1.
     
  23. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    I used the free cards the ATF sends. I think I did it right The completed application went out on 11 May 2020. It was returned approved today, 4 June 2020. That looks like 17 working days.

    That puts it here well before the AliExpress materials ordered on the next day. To be fair, it was a form 1.

    The only weirdness I ran into was that the Sheriff's Department wanted a paper copy of the form 1 before they would fingerprint me. The captain went over it checking that it was complete, then they took the LE copy. The reason this was an issue at all is that the PDF of the application that the ATD sends is not printable.

    I wrote to the ATF and explained the problem, that the Sheriff's demanded a paper copy, even though it was unnecessary. In about an hour after I wrote, explaining the problem, the ATF sent me a printable copy. Again I used the e-form, I used the cards that the ATF provides, and I had the fingerprinting done at the SO. The turnaround was 17 working days.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  24. il_10

    il_10 Member

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    I submitted my last eform1 on April 19th and got an approval back on May 13th, and I rolled my own prints. The plural of anecdote isn't data, but my last experience was silky smooth with doing my own cards...
     
  25. 748

    748 member

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    These anecdotes show a very clear trend.
    The form ones are coming back crazy fast compared to any kind of form 4.
     
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