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Fire by wire for bullpup?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Zundfolge, Sep 27, 2005.

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  1. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Now I would never consider an electronic trigger for a self defense or combat gun, but what about for a target/range/plinking gun?

    I like the idea of a bullpup rifle, but for the most part NONE of them are going to have a trigger as nice as a regular rifle ... the physics of the longer trigger bar etc just make that impossible.

    But what about an electric trigger? It could be tuned to pull exactly the way you want. And I'm sure it could be made reliable enough for the range (considering the delicate electronics in optics these days I imagine an electronic trigger would be easier).

    Is there such a thing already?
    Would it be illegal for competition (like 3-gun)?
    Would there be any issues with the boys of F-Troop?
     
  2. Rob1035

    Rob1035 Member

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    I'm sure its possible, however, I wont how it would actually feel?


    Let me elaborate a little bit. I'm a huge car nut, I love almost anything with wheels. However, one of my least favorite 'advancements' in the auto industry is the 'e-throttle', which has been around for 6-7 years. It replaces a cable/throttle linkage with electronics and solenoids. While on paper its a great idea, on the road, its different. Gone is the direct foot to throttle feel that is so important in performance cars. There's always a little 'lag' that the computer cant eliminate, it feels like a video game. and i'm not talking about cheap family haulers, this was my impression after driving a '03 BMW M3.

    IMHO, while a e-trigger type deal is possible, I wonder how it would feel? But then again, now that I think about it, it might be the ticket for a range/target gun. One less thing to worry about moving your sights I guess, and the trigger could be light as all getup. PLus I really like how short rifles can be in bullpup config....hmmmmm...
     
  3. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    I don't think feel would be a problem. Unlike an e-throttle you aren't easing into it (unless partially pulled is semi, fully pulled is full auto ... but that doesn't apply here).


    the trigger itself would be mechanical ... so it would adjust like a fine match trigger, however at the point you trip the trigger it would fire a solenoid to do the actual firing.

    So I'm thinking you could adjust the trigger to whatever you wanted ... multi stage, single stage, long pull, short pull, whatever.
     
  4. Rob1035

    Rob1035 Member

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    yeah now that you explain that, I can dig it. ALthough the ATF would probably ban it since now wiring geniuses could probably make it full auto with a soldering iron :p
     
  5. Cortland

    Cortland Member

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    There was the Remington EtronX, which seems to have gone over like a lead balloon.

    For a while I've been thinking about electrically activated primers that could be shot with an electric battery-powered trigger (as you describe), but with the addition of an fail-safe "double action" mode whereby, in the death of the battery, a piezoelectric device would ignite the primer.

    As I understand it you're talking about a device that would continue to use conventional primers.
     
  6. pauli

    pauli Member

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    piezos would make for some interesting triggers.
     
  7. ZenMasterJG

    ZenMasterJG Member

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    Its a good idea, and definatly reliable enough for a range gun, the electronic trigger on my paintball marker has certainly never failed me (except for when i forget to change the batteries :banghead: ) The trigger would be absurdly light too, which is perfect for a range gun. I think the reason the Rem. EtronX failed so miserably is because it needed special ammo where an electric current fires the primer instead of a firing pin. No reason (that i can think of, at least.) you couldn't just use a solanoid to operate the firing mechanism and use normal ammo, though.

    Edit:

    Oh, just thought of a problem. On a semi-auto rifle, at least, using a solanoid to operate the firing pin would allow it to be really easily converted to full-auto by anyone with a soldering iron and a basic knowledge of electronics.
    Feds probably wouldn't appreciate that one.

    Edit again: Oh, somebody already made that point. My bad.
     
  8. ziadel

    ziadel Member

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    Properly done I would consider this reliable enough for all circumstances.
    As Zundfolge pointed out, they work in paintball guns. Hell, ALL the top end guns have electronic microswitch triggers. They work just fine, and IMO paintball guns get knocked around a lot more than any gun in a 3 gun match (I think the officials in 3 gun might get a tad upset if you pulled a home plate type slide to get to cover in a 3 gun match)
     
  9. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Seen it done. It was pretty cool. The shooter kept his rifle pointed downrange, and the ROs didn't say a word. :D

    Electronic triggers are sometimes used on ISSF Free Pistols, and on at least one Rapid Fire pistol that I know of. They can be made to work, and if radios and NODs can be made tough enough to withstand combat, an electronic trigger pack should be no problem at all.

    - Chris
     
  10. artherd

    artherd member

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    Cooooooool, first application I have heard of in a (presumeably) automatic pistol. Wonder if the BATF(e) would consider it 'readily convertible'?

    (I mean, anyone with a basic machineing knowlege can convert many semis into crude MGs in a matter of minuites with hand tools, so I guess I don't see some rather advanced 555 timer and soldering ability as anything new or different.)

    If they rule electronic triggers for semis are kosher, then I want an electrically primed 'semi-auto' M134 :evil: :evil: :evil:
     
  11. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    After playing with my paintball gun, and seeing how incredibly light that trigger is, I often wonder why more companies don't look into electronic triggers. My only guess is the easy convertability to auto.
     
  12. .45Guy

    .45Guy Member

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    Wasn't there a US maker trying the caseless ammo concept a few years ago? I remember reading about the K&K G11, but I swear someone told me about a commercial maker here in the US dinking with caseless.
     
  13. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    It would probably be possible to use a regular, mechanical disconnector on an electronic trigger. Solenoid keeps going, but can't touch the sear until the trigger is released and pulled again.

    At that point, an electronic gun wouldn't be any more "readily convertable" than a normal one.
     
  14. goon

    goon Member

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    Didn't Remington make a rifle that used electronic ignition?
     
  15. JesseL

    JesseL Member

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    Better than a microswitch

    You could use a strain gage for a trigger. This is the type of sensor typically used in electronic scales.

    It would provide an infinitely adjustable pull with virtually no movement! No break and no overtravel. Just reach the set level of pressure on the trigger and it would fire.

    It should be as conducive to accuracy as it is possible for a trigger to be.
     
  16. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    Quote:
    I think the officials in 3 gun might get a tad upset if you pulled a home plate type slide to get to cover in a 3 gun match


    Done it. On gravel. It hurt. :)
     
  17. ziadel

    ziadel Member

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    I've done it too, on concrete ;)
    hurt a lot.
     
  18. molonlabe

    molonlabe Member

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    So if you pulse the solenoid where it actually presses the trigger after each shot "The one shot for each trigger squeeze" Does this get you around the law??? Of course it would probably take them a microsecond to amend it.

    Kind of like bump firing. I would still worry about out of battery firing and would rather have firing prevented until the breech is locked. (Also doable with electronics)
     
  19. zahc

    zahc Member

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    That is it. BE VERY CAREFUL. If you have followed tournament paintball to any extent you should be a aware of the difficulties enforcing semi-auto only rules. With electronically controlled firing cycles it becomes a very grey are indeed what is considered semi-auto, and it has led some leauges to recently give up and attempt to enforce an on the field ROF cap. Readily convertible is an understatement.

    Of course tournament paintball could be fixed simply by changing field layouts and using piant limits, but everyone (especially fields and paint vendors) is used to the way it is now, and there seems little incentive to fix it as a sport while everyone is still making money off of it. It will soon self destruct.
     
  20. Rob1035

    Rob1035 Member

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    I remember when paintball was guy running around the woods trying to outsnipe each other. I quit when ever place in my area became "arena ball" type spray and pray places.
     
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