Firing Blanks

[HankB]

I grew up in Chicago, where fireworks were illegal; the city sounded like Beirut. Good times for all. On rare occasions when police stopped kids with fireworks, all they did in my neighborhood was confiscate said fireworks . . . and take them home for their own kids to enjoy.

Shooting actual firearms - even with blanks - would have garnered a rather different response. And I'm rather sure that "I was only shooting blanks!" would not have been a successful defense either in court or with the responding officers.

 

[entropy]

I grew up in Chicago, where fireworks were illegal; the city sounded like Beirut. Good times for all. On rare occasions when police stopped kids with fireworks, all they did in my neighborhood was confiscate said fireworks . . . and take them home for their own kids to enjoy.

Shooting actual firearms - even with blanks - would have garnered a rather different response. And I'm rather sure that "I was only shooting blanks!" would not have been a successful defense either in court or with the responding officers.

Yup, I didn't buy fireworks till I was 17 and could drive to WI to buy them. I always had plenty that my dad confiscated from other kids, we shot them off up at our cabin.

 

[Hanzo581]

Hanzo, I'm not talking about law or facts. The deal is neighbors' perceptions and on-scene cop reactions. Think hassle-factor resulting from a harmless act.

I meant, how would they know it came from you? Now if it's just you and your neighbor out in the middle of nowhere sure, but from the sound of it there are other domiciles around. They would just go around door to door asking questions right?

"...it's illegal to discharge a firearm without just cause..." Firing a blank is discharging a firearm.
"...Jon-Erik Hexum was killed by a blank-firing handgun..." So was Brandon Lee. Not that it matters. Movie sets are not real life until incompetence or idiocy makes it real.
Every 24th of May and Canada I keep thinking 'belt of MG trace' off the balcony. Then I remember I have no MG. New Years Eve at a buddy's place years ago saw a BP model cannon and a bunch of fire crackers discharged of his balcony. SSSHHH! Fire crackers were illegal then too.

Brandon Lee was killed in one of the weirdest (and most unlikely way) possible. It was a blank....but there was a bullet in the barrel already when the blank went off.

In the scene in which Lee was accidentally shot, Lee's character walks into his apartment and discovers his fiancée being beaten and raped by thugs. Actor Michael Massee's character fires a .44 Magnum revolver at Lee as he walks into the room.[10] A previous scene using the same gun had called for inert dummy cartridges fitted with bullets (but no powder or primer) to be loaded in the revolver for a close-up scene; for film scenes which utilize a revolver (where the bullets are visible from the front) and do not require the gun to actually be fired, dummy cartridges provide the realistic appearance of actual rounds. Instead of purchasing commercial dummy cartridges, the film's prop crew created their own by pulling the bullets from live rounds, dumping the powder charge then reinserting the bullets. However, they unknowingly or unintentionally left the live primer in place at the rear of the cartridge. At some point during filming, the revolver was apparently discharged with one of these improperly-deactivated cartridges in the chamber, setting off the primer with enough force to drive the bullet partway into the barrel, where it became stuck (a condition known as a squib load). The prop crew either failed to notice this or failed to recognize the significance of this issue.

In the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be actually fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 feet), the dummy cartridges were exchanged with blank rounds, which feature a live powder charge and primer, but no bullet, thus allowing the gun to be fired without the risk of an actual projectile. But since the bullet from the dummy round was already trapped in the barrel, this caused the .44 Magnum bullet to be fired out of the barrel with virtually the same force as if the gun had been loaded with a live round, and it struck Lee in the abdomen, mortally wounding him.[11] He was rushed to the New Hanover Regional Medical Center in Wilmington, North Carolina, where he underwent 6 hours of surgery. However, attempts to save him were unsuccessful, and Lee was pronounced dead at 1:03 p.m. EST. The shooting was ruled an accident.

 

[wally]

Buy a blank firing only starter's pistol they are not legally a firearm (in most places as far as I know), or a "power hammer nail gun, skip the nails

We're going out on the 4th to shoot some Tannerite at my friend's ranch. Big boom time!

 

[CapnMac]

CapnMac, thanks for that research

Mechanicsville did not pop up, but Hanover County did. Which is not unusual for municode in Virginia.

A bunch of municode is all cribbed from "model code" coming out of some source house. It can be amusing to find the exact same bits of code in geographically separated locations.

Which is what surprised me about the Noise ordinances not specifically listing discharge of firearms or fireworks (this has become a little more common in some parts of Texas).

 

[CapnMac]

Buy a blank firing only starter's pistol they are not legally a firearm

Please not the Noise ordinance cited above.
A noise which disturbs the peace is illegal no matter what causes that noise (ATV's with no mufflers are specifically cited in code).

 

[herrwalther]

Blanks still engage the mechanics of a firearm. Some are powerful enough to cycle a slide in a semi-auto like a live round. Which is why blanks, even though they do not shoot a live projectile, are still considered ammunition by federal and state governments. If you feel like making some additional noise to go along with the fireworks, I recommend a cap gun. You can get cheap ones and the cap rings at most dollar stores without the worry of legalities.

 

[MedWheeler]

Those ring caps are kind of loud, from what I recall, more so than strip caps. I used them in high school, as part of the theater club. Had some pretty realistic guns for them, too, including one that replicated a .38 snub, complete with swing-out metal cylinder that used an ejector rod to pop the spent cap-ring off. No orange tips back then, either. Was never an issue having it on campus on days we had rehearsal or performances. Imagine getting caught with one today...

 

[Art Eatman]

Hanzo, don't you know when your next-door neighbor creates some unusual and loud noise? You don't need a formal neighborhood watch to have a local snoop or three, eager to report anything viewed as wrong.

 

[RPZ]

To be on the safe side I would go with the second operative word. "Firearm". If what you are planning on discharging is a "firearm" then I would say that it is illegal. If you plan on shooting blanks out of something that is not a firearm - have at it,.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

A few years ago the city legalized private fireworks in the city after a long time ban on even sparklers and firecrackers.

People could and did buy professional grade mortars and other elaborate fireworks.

My son came over put and put on a fireworks display for his mom (my wife passed away Aug 2014). So did half the people in the neighborhood. My son has his mortars wood-screwed to a table top and stable. As the evening went on, the whole neighborhood appeared to be the center of a continous fireworks display. I began to worry about how secure the neighbors launchers were. Debris rained down on houses and yards (in clear violation of the blue book ordinance on no ordnance crossing property lines or public thoroughfares). Our cat did not come out of his "thunder hole" -- the tunnel under the waterbed -- until the next day.

The private fireworks ban was reinstated with no debate or protest. My wife and I did watch the city display from our porch or her bedroom window until she passed away.

 

[Hanzo581]

Hanzo, don't you know when your next-door neighbor creates some unusual and loud noise? You don't need a formal neighborhood watch to have a local snoop or three, eager to report anything viewed as wrong.

I suppose so, though I live in a row of town houses, if you forced me to tell you which back yard a loud bang came from I'd have to guess, I suppose if it was super loud I'd have to assume it was directly next door.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Mechanicsville did not pop up, but Hanover County did. Which is not unusual for municode in Virginia.

A bunch of municode is all cribbed from "model code" coming out of some source house. It can be amusing to find the exact same bits of code in geographically separated locations.

Which is what surprised me about the Noise ordinances not specifically listing discharge of firearms or fireworks (this has become a little more common in some parts of Texas).

I appreciate the time you've taken to dive into this CapnMac. Much of what you posted I was already aware of, some not so much.

Mechanicsville IS in Hanover county for anyone wondering.



The subject is somewhat irrelevant in these parts though. This time of year live motars are shot and firearms of various types can be heard from all distances (likely NOT using blanks). The local LE doesn't generally intervene.

I doubt someone firing blanks around here would have an issue while motars were being shot off, but the thread was started in a legal sense, not what one could "get away with".

I feel like we really haven't reached a "black and white" on the law but more a gray area which is probably best left uncharted. At the very least, I'm not willing to chart it....

 

[RickD427]

All,

Please keep in mind that the laws against discharging firearms vary from state to state, and apply differently based on the particular elements of each state's offense.

But also remember, that most "Blank" cartridges do discharge a projectile. It is quite incorrect to assert that a "Blank" cartridge is different from a regular cartridge in this regard. The projectile discharged by most "Blank" cartridges is a paper wadding used to allow the chamber pressure to rise to a point of producing a loud discharge. As other posters have correctly pointed out, that wadding has been responsible for a number of deaths where folks have fired "Blank" rounds at others. Some blanks also used a crimp to create the same pressure rise, but then the gases are still discharged through the barrel, and can have lethal consequences at short ranges.

 

[zb338]

I had a model 03-A3 Springfield in excellent condition. One fourth of July I dipped into
my supply of blanks and shot a magazine full up in the air. I didn't think of blanks as
being real so I thought nothing of it and put the rifle away. Little did I realize that the
blanks were the same as real cartridges and were CORROSIVE. When I looked at the
rifle a month or two later I had nicely rusted the bore. Don't be a dumb ass like I was.
Think!
Zeke

 

[Speedo66]

Hopefully the area you live in does not have gunfire detectors, you know, the system that zeros in on a gun discharge noise.

If the police roll thinking it's live fire, whoever may be shooting blanks could find themselves in a lot worse situation than just having a summons issued for illegal fireworks.

 

[MedWheeler]

zb338 writes:

When I looked at the rifle a month or two later I had nicely rusted the bore.

Excellent point. Even the crimped .22 blanks, a tin of which I still have lying around here somewhere (gotta be nearly 30 years old!) use corrosive powder.

 

[CapnMac]

I feel like we really haven't reached a "black and white" on the law but more a gray area which is probably best left uncharted. At the very least, I'm not willing to chart it....

Which brings up a couple of salient points.
One is that "community standards" do have meaning (even if only by defining the jury pool available)

Another is that jurisdictions vary.. I'll wager Chesapeake County would be much more stringent and strict.
I have noticed that Virginia has an interesting mix of strong county/weak county rules. Which is very much not like Texas, which has Strong county legislation; but each of the 254 counties gets decide how strict they will be (beyond what Austin requires).

(Crockett County is about 80% the size of Maryland, has exactly one incorporated city, Ozona; I'll wager it has no noise ordinances.)

 

[Sarge]

Blanks still engage the mechanics of a firearm. Some are powerful enough to cycle a slide in a semi-auto like a live round. Which is why blanks, even though they do not shoot a live projectile, are still considered ammunition by federal and state governments.

WRONG!!! NOT unless there is some sort of bore restriction (which is called a "blank adapter.")!!!
Would you please quote for us the "Federal Law" on this subjekt. Other than postal regulations I've never heard of any such!
Sarge

 

[Carl N. Brown]

This past 4th, one neighbor did a private fireworks display. They were constrained, small scale fireworks, and stopped by midnight. Others in the neighborhood shot off fireworks. I found two spendt rockets, one small spendt mortar shell, and the clay plug from a bursting charge on my lawn. (Not like 4ths past when the sky rained spendt rockets and mortar shells all night.)


wally said: Buy a blank firing only starter's pistol they are not legally a firearm

I remember buying a starter's pistol and blank cartridges as a teenager. They are not treated as firearms under federal gun control law. The legal sales and possession status of certain items under weapons laws does not make it legal to use them in violation of other laws. Use of a blank pistol as a noise maker in violation of noise statutes is a violation; use outside the start of a race, training hunting dogs in the field, theatrical productions, etc. is subject to reasonable limitations.)

Where I live, I can own a switchblade stiletto or brass knuckles and use them as a letter opener or paper weight on my home office desk; I can keep a spray can of oven cleaner by my stove and use it to clean the oven. I bought two cap'n'ball revolvers to commemorate the Civil War and shoot as range toys. In a pinch, I could even use any of them as weapons against a home invader. If I carried them outside the home as weapons of offense or defense, I would be in violation of the "going armed" statute which lists specific weapons but also covers anything carried with intent to use for offense or defense; I could carry the cap'n'ball revolvers on my handgun carry permit for defense subject to use as a weapon same as a modern handgun.

A starter pistol used outdoors as a noise maker violates noise pollution laws (and may result in a "man with a gun" complaint to 911).

Sorry to go on so long, but I also hate to hear the incantation "cap'n'ball revolvers are not counted as modern firearms under the 1968 gun control act, therefore I can carry one without a permit". Bad info for a lot of jurisdictions.

 

[rustyh22]

We Do it All The Time In Cowboy Mounted Shooting Ive Never Heard Of Any Problem

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Post #46 ^ Cowboy mounted action and cowboy action shooting events are venues where attendees expect to heard noise and see guns and the organizers comply with noise regulations, zoning etc.

The opening post was about people firing fireworks and guns in neighborhoods on the 4th of July.

 

[MedWheeler]

Wally writes (though I didn't see it until Carl N. Brown quoted it):

Buy a blank firing only starter's pistol they are not legally a firearm

Even this must be checked out first. I already mentioned before that, in my state, a starter gun is actually included verbatim in the law's definition of a firearm.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Note also that under federal law (18 USC 921(a)(3)) the term "firearm" includes a starter pistol if it, "... may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive..."

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ Yep. Florida's definition includes a similar phrase, too, and as I read it again, it does seem to mean that a starter is only a "firearm" if it can be so readily converted. The old one I have (likely made by RG) has a near-complete plug in it that appears to be an actual molded part of the barrel. I'd bet that trying to drill it out would cause the barrel to shatter. So, contrary to what I've been assuming, this piece may not be considered an actual "firearm" by Florida or Federal law. Still, I've been treating it as such, and I have no reason to change that.