Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Firing homemade PAPER shotgun

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Wolfsbane, Feb 19, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Wolfsbane

    Wolfsbane Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    NYC
    I'm not sure if this is the place for this or not.

    Take a look at these videos. It sounds like a kid. He made an operational shotgun and shells out of glue impregnated paper.

    Homemade Paper Shotgun (ignition test)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3YSbIGjBQ8

    Homemade Paper Shotgun

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVrRHyRXwq4

    Homemade Paper Shotgun Disassembly

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLpIq57nqoE

    Homemade Shotgun (Trigger Group)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaF3nhSzTDY

    shotgun shell stop pt.1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4RGZkbhMIk

    shotgun shell stop pt.2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9P9zUlZcsM

    Teaser 2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otAFUy32AD0

    homemade shotgun shells

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z65q5nk-c8w

    homemade primer description

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4195PUfieE

    I'm not sure if this kid is the next John Browning or the next tragic negative firearm news statistic. He's clearly made a firing weapon.

    BTW, he's also has videos on making an AK, an MG42, a K98 and a 1911.
     
  2. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    In order to bring this into the realm of legal....

    18 USC 922:

    (p)
    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any firearm—
    (A) that, after removal of grips, stocks, and magazines, is not as detectable as the Security Exemplar, by walk-through metal detectors calibrated and operated to detect the Security Exemplar; or
    (B) any major component of which, when subjected to inspection by the types of x-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the fabrication of the component.
    (2) For purposes of this subsection—
    (A) the term “firearm” does not include the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
    (B) the term “major component” means, with respect to a firearm, the barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or receiver of the firearm; and
    (C) the term “Security Exemplar” means an object, to be fabricated at the direction of the Attorney General, that is—
    (i) constructed of, during the 12-month period beginning on the date of the enactment of this subsection, 3.7 ounces of material type 17–4 PH stainless steel in a shape resembling a handgun; and
    (ii) suitable for testing and calibrating metal detectors:
    Provided, however, That at the close of such 12-month period, and at appropriate times thereafter the Attorney General shall promulgate regulations to permit the manufacture, importation, sale, shipment, delivery, possession, transfer, or receipt of firearms previously prohibited under this subparagraph that are as detectable as a “Security Exemplar” which contains 3.7 ounces of material type 17–4 PH stainless steel, in a shape resembling a handgun, or such lesser amount as is detectable in view of advances in state-of-the-art developments in weapons detection technology.
     
  3. LiENUS

    LiENUS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Navy I don't believe it is actually a functioning firearm. It does in fact fire however it fires confetti rolls that appeared to stay attached to the shotgun itself in video I saw. It might fall under some form of fireworks law however.
     
  4. LiENUS

    LiENUS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    Louisiana
  5. Manco

    Manco Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,988
    So what does he intend to shoot with it, paper tigers? :p
     
  6. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    It's a form of zip gun, and does work
    there have been cases of paper, or paper and metal (thin at that) zip guns being used in prisons.

    For fun, look up paper spear gun/crossbows. Yeah that gives a CO nightmares.
     
  7. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,051
    This kid is a genius, but he is doing what I interpret is illegal, he made a paper silencer for his paper 1911.
     
  8. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    Um, zip guns are illegal...
     
  9. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,060
    Location:
    The Old Dominion
    Its more like a homemade bb/airsoft gun.

    If he put a real shell in that thing it would asplode.
     
  10. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,051
    It uses a modern form of firing a cartridge.
     
  11. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,060
    Location:
    The Old Dominion
    So the mechanism it uses determines whether or not its a firearm, regardless of whether or not it actually shoots?
     
  12. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    The term “firearms” is defined in 27 CFR § 447.11 as
    “A weapon, and all components and parts therefore, not over .50 caliber
    which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a
    projectile by the action of an explosive, but shall not include BB and pellet
    guns, and muzzle loading (black powder) firearms (including any firearm
    with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition
    system) or firearms covered by Category 1(a) established to have been
    manufactured in or before 1898.”
     
  13. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    4,059
    Location:
    Texas
    Looks to me that would be illegal ... at least on paper ... :D
     
  14. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,060
    Location:
    The Old Dominion
    So if he lined it in tinfoil, that would make it legal since it would show up on an xray?

    It looks like hes just using the primer to send thing ablaze...
     
  15. MrCleanOK

    MrCleanOK Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,354
    Location:
    Alaska
    The shell has a black powder charge, and I would think having a fixed cartridge would make it specifically not a muzzleloader.
     
  16. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,070
    It is not a zip gun, it is a real gun.

    There is no federal laws against "zip guns", and in states with the term the definition varies and is highly subjective.
    However the action operates entirely as many real guns, so to declare it a "zip gun" even in those states would be akin to declaring the same actions in metal "zip guns" outlawing many real firearms.
    However to even include the "zip gun" argument requires him to be in such a state.

    This thing is designed and functions much as a common action, it does not hide the fact that it is a firearm, and there is no law against building your own personal firearm.

    Not federally, and not in most states. There is no federal definition of "zip gun", though there is some that would fall into the realm of AOWs like pen guns. This however is not such a design.
    This is a firearm.

    That would be a different video, but could be valid if it was also a functioning firearm.
    However that has nothing to do with the paper shotgun.


    I see the joke, but why?


    As for the law NavyLT cited:

    So it needs to be as able to trigger a detector as the "security exemplar" with in this case the shotgun stock removed.
    That means any internal metal components could towards that.
    Let us see what the "security exemplar" is:


    So it needs to be as sensitive as 3.7 ounces of a stainless steel, an alloyed steel that is itself far from the most ferrous or magnetic of materials, and an even smaller amount of other materials would qualify.


    The trigger group clearly has metal in it, it has a spring, a rod, and other metal.
    These alone may be plenty.


    Also "the types of x-ray machines commonly used at airports" are some pretty high quality x-rays post 9/11 and can see clothing and all sorts of materials.
    The legislation says nothing about requiring the item be metal or the outline be metallic, but rather than it be visible to the X-ray.
    I think this thing, especially with the black paint that likely has a metallic pigment, would be easily visible to modern X-ray machines at airports.
    While this is the only part of the law that could possibly be interpreted against the individual, I imagine modern airport X-ray machines would have no problem seeing it and its outline along with the metallic internals.



    If this individual is over 18 they have legally created a shotgun.
    A real shotgun firing real ammo, just very weak ammo.


    Edit to add: Though the ATF could declare it to have "no sporting purpose" as a firearm over .50 bore diameter, and thus an illegal "Destructive Device".
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  17. Zane

    Zane Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    169
    I hope is is really careful with his MG42. Given his attention to detail and that his other examples actually fire, he might actually make an NFA item out of paper and glue.
     
  18. o Unforgiven o

    o Unforgiven o Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    Central FL
    The term “firearms” is defined in 27 CFR § 447.11 as
    A weapon, and all components and parts therefore, not over .50 caliber
    which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a
    projectile by the action of an explosive, but shall not include BB and pellet
    guns
    , and muzzle loading (black powder) firearms (including any firearm
    with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition
    system) or firearms covered by Category 1(a) established to have been
    manufactured in or before 1898.”

    Im no lawyer, but does'nt the fact that it is a bb gun make it legal?
     
  19. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    NO
    Somewhere in the tangle there is a definition that states an AIRGUN (bb etc. but on that works on PNEUMATICS) is NOT a gun, but put a cartridge in it and now you have a GUN
     
  20. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    So you could have 9mm Automatic, but you would need a hell of a scuba tank to run it.
     
  21. xcgates

    xcgates Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX :)
    From an engineering perspective, that is sweet! We could use more people like him, and fewer laws here.
     
  22. Colonel

    Colonel Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    319
    Where there's a will...

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Coyote3855

    Coyote3855 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,936
    Location:
    Wyoming
    ^^^^^ Excellent.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page