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First 1,000yd rifle build.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Kachok, Jun 20, 2012.

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  1. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    I have come to the decision to build my own long ranged paper puncher, I found a range nearby that goes out to 1k so I am going for it. Seeing as I am not rolling in cash I will probably be using one of my Savage rifles for the build up and would like some advice from some of our experienced members.
    I am torn between converting my 30-06 to 6.5-284 Norma or converting my 270 WSM to 300 WSM, I considered going 7mm WSM but the fact that I can only get win brass in that cartrage was a turnoff.
    Key elements in my buildup are finding a good barrel, stock, and scope for the task, any suggestions?
     
  2. GJgo

    GJgo Member

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    Given those choices I'd do the 6.5x284. Another option though if you want to save some cash on a new barrel, take the 270 WSM & load up some Berger bullets. They make a very sleek 130, 140 & 150gr in .277. I'd start with RL17 for top speed if it's accurate enough, if not step back to H4831SC or H4350.

    I have a SWFA SS 16x on my long range rig. If I had it to do over again I'd get the 10X, eye relief is way better.
     
  3. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    I have given some thought to keeping the 270 WSM and just working up a good 150gr VLD handload, but I was thinking that I sould get a heavy bull barrel anyway and I don't think the 270 could hang with the 300s 200+gr low drag bullets, even if they are 150fps slower. The factory Savage 270 barrel is pretty good for a lightweight but the el-chepo factory stock has to go for sure. The 6.5-284 Norma and the 300 WSM seem to have near identical external ballistics with heavy low drag bullets in each, I am a proud member of the 6.5mm cult but the .30 cal has more bullet choices especially since it might see some hunting duty (though not at 1,000yd) I don't think recoil would be an issue with the added weight, I shoot high performance handloads in my lightweight rifles currently with no problems.
     
  4. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Agree with GJgo

    Put your money into some good bullets and a good scope.
    Then when you have worn out a .30-06 and .270 barrel, you can go into a specialty caliber with some background.

    A top Long Range shooter in this area uses both 7mm WSM and 7mm RSAUM.
    A lot of shooters are willing to take a little more recoil to get the high BC 7mm bullets.
     
  5. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    Don't get me wrong the 7mm WSM has some rocking external ballistics with 180gr VLDs, but I am no fan of Winchester brass (below average QC in my experience), if Norma or Lapua made some that would be a different story. I have seen some 7mm short mag guys prefer the long actions over the short to prevent the long bullets from taking up their case capacity just like the 6.5-284 Norma which is a long action despite it's short case and parent cartrage.
     
  6. chaser_2332

    chaser_2332 Member

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    Buy a scope first, then put ur rifle together with whatever funds u have left
     
  7. GJgo

    GJgo Member

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    Fair enough. In that case, I'd turn the 30-06 into a straight 284. Neck up Lapua 6.5x284 brass. Good to go, better barrel life.

    Or, turn the 270 WSM into a 7 WSM & neck down Norma 300 WSM brass.
     
  8. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

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    Why get all fancy and chamber a barrel burner (you did say you weren't rolling in cash)?

    There are far better choices for a beginner (or an old hand, on a budget)...various other 6.5 (260) and 7mm rounds (7mm-08), heck...that 30-06 will do fine.

    Just sayin...
     
  9. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    ???? Neither the 6.5-284 nor the 300 WSM has earned a reputation as a barrel burner. They are both good to 1,500rd+ of COMPETITION level accuracy. Far better then the likes of the 7mm ultra mag or 264 win mag for sure. That said I might be able to get away with 6.5x47/6.5x55 speeds but that is a bit more drop to deal with.
     
  10. pdd614

    pdd614 Member

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    Kochak, you don't need a barrel burner to be successful at 1k. What you need is experience gained through shooting and equipment tha doesn't hinder your learning. Why not try shooting the swede by rebarreling the 06? You will have great brass, less powder capacity than the Norma, and a proven long range caliber.
    You could also pick up a chassis system from mcree's or xlr, and get a stock that fits you perfectly. Optics are a completly different story. What is your budget for the scope? And don't skimp on the mounts and rings. I always suggest seekins or badgers. These are all fixed cost items that will pay for themselves in the long run.
     
  11. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    And the 6.5-284 is not a proven long range caliber :scrutiny: it only held the 1,000yd 5 shot group record for like a decade (until a 300 WSM dethroned it) No dust on the old Sweed though, I absolutely love them, but the bolt face on my 06 is slightly smaller then Sweed spec, so that would have to be one more thing to replace :( Of course I could go 6.5-06 that is a close rival of the 6.5-284 but I would have to learn to form brass.
    I am still confused about the barrel burner thing, this is the first time I have ever heard anyone call a 6.5-284 or 300 WSM a barrel burner, neither are using a large volume of powder for their bore size, and both have sharp shoulders.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
  12. longrange308

    longrange308 Member

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    If I were you (which I'm not) I would contact my G'smith about building me a rifle on a FNH-USA/Winchester action, that should run you about $450.00+/-. Then, I would buy a really good barrel (Krieger or Broughton), that should run you $400.00+/-. Then, to start with, I would go with the H-S Precision Pro-Series Tactical stock (full-length aluminum bedding block), that will run you about $325.00. Then, I would have the entire action and barrel Cerakoted, that will cost you another $275.00-$300.00 (You do live in the gulf coast region).

    This would be a great start to a 1000yd rifle. I would also go with the 6.5-284 Norma.
     
  13. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

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    My bad...I don't consider 1,500 rounds good barrel life.

    Thats why I stayed with the 308 and 300 Win Mag...the 308 barrels (4 of them) lasted 6,000-8,000 rounds before opening up over 1 MOA.

    2 on the Win Mag...they went almost 4,000.

    All 3 rifles are now shot out again...and I'm in no hurry to rebarrel them but I guess I'll get around to it sometime. I don't really have time to shoot them enough to justify the cost anymore...they have been in the safe since 2005. I used to do a lot of shooting (thousands of rounds per year)...but just don't have time anymore...I will retire one day though :)

    Also...I've never competed...never had much desire to...I just wanted to learn to shoot way out there, and on a farm boys income (tobacco grower at the time), I had to stick with what was economical for me.

    Anyway...the 6.5x284 is a fine round, no doubt...as is the 280 AI (the only "exotic" caliber in my safe)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
  14. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    The 1500rd figure is their life expectancy for world class accuracy, not moa. The 300 WSM has every advantage (in terms of barrel life) over the 300 win, it burns slightly less powder and moves the vortex back into the neck of the brass thanks to the sharp 35 degree shoulder. So if your 300 win mag lasted 4k before you lost MOA level accuracy you could expect slightly better out of a WSM with similar barrel quality.
     
  15. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    Reguardless of the caliber used what stock and optics do you recomend for shooting that range? I hear alot of good things about HS Precision stocks and the Vortex scopes but I think both of those run pretty high dollar, are there stocks/optics that provide similar quality for less or is trying to save a little cash a dead end street?
     
  16. longrange308

    longrange308 Member

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  17. Sebastian the Ibis
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    Sebastian the Ibis Member

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    There are a lot of people on here with more experience than me at this, but the Vortex CS is no joke. I called them for a quote on a replacement turret cap for a used scope I was going to buy, they sent me one for free the next day and included a hat. I was so impressed I went out and bought a new one instead.
     
  18. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    Because $1,500 for just the rifle is out of my range at the moment. I was thinking if I could get a good stock for $200, a quality barrel for $150-$300 and a good scope for $300-$400 I could swing that, and would likely be as accurate as any high dollar factory rifle.
     
  19. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    For getting started I don't think you will go wrong with a Savage action, very good prefit barrels are available which you can install yourself (I did it so anyone can). Mine has a Sharpshooter Supply LVT stock, I built mine primarily for long range varminting and stayed with a varmint contour stock from Lothar Walther. As shown it has a 6.5-20 Weaver Grand Slam scope which is very good glass for the money, I've recently gone to an 8-32 though. Although is wasn't built for F class it shoots way better than I can at 600 yards and farther.

    [​IMG]

    I may build a dedicated F class gun in the near future, and may go with a 6.5-284, but several of the newest BR world records at 600 yards and farther are getting set with the 6 BRX and similar cartridges. As an example the newest 600 yard light gun aggregate was just set with a 1.495" aggregate and a best group of 1.033" .The top European shooters have just about all all gone to 7mm short action mags if that means anything.

    Have a look at http://www.accurateshooter.com/, there is a lot of good information there on different cartridges suitable for 1000 yard shooting.
     
  20. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

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    You can spend a lot of $$$ on scopes...and really not benefit from it all that much (or at least I didn't). I bought a Schmidt & Bender once...it was a great scope...but NOT $3,000 worth of great!

    High magnification is not needed...10x is plenty, and anything over 18x is more trouble than its worth because to get clarity at that magnification takes some extremely expensive glass.

    For paper targets...pretty much any upper tier Leupold or Nikon scope with 12x or so magnification will do....GET ONE WITH PARALLAX ADJUSTMENT...whether its side focus or adjustable objective doesn't really matter, either one will do...side focus is more user friendly IMO.

    EDITED TO ADD: As said above...the upper tier Weaver scopes are good to go too...I've never owned one, but I have had the chance to look through a few.
     
  21. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    kachok

    really depends on what type of shooting you are doing. if paper only (f-class) then my choice would be different than mostly steel. If paper only, I would take a little more recoil, that I would not choose were I going to shoot at steel, because if you have someone pulling targets for you, being able to see your own impact and trace is less important.

    I won't get into the barrel burner stuff.


    if paper only, look for a Nightforce benchrest 12-42x. awesome target scope for f-class. everything you need and nothing you don't. maybe pick up a used one or a demo off samplelist.com.

    if practical shooting, i believe bushnell is about to come out with a FFP 4-30x HDMR with the G2 reticle, locking turrets etc. I dunno but I expect it to be well under $2k.


    also, i kind of agree with you on win brass. it has irritated me greatly lately. however, i've found hornady brass just as good as lapua for my long range shooting lately.
     
  22. longrange308

    longrange308 Member

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    The lowest priced Savage F-Class I found was on Gallery of Guns for $$1,368.36, and it is chambered in 6.5-284 Norma.

    It's going to cost you a lot more than $1,368.36 for someone to build you a rifle on your action, were talking $2,000.00-$2,500.00 minimum.

    I will bet you, that you could look around your house and find some things to sell to come up with the $1,368.36 that you would never miss. I know, I do it all the time. Even if you had to save for it, it would be worth it to buy the Savage already built.
     
  23. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    Where exactly do we draw the line of barrel burner? I hear that term alot and often in the context of cartrages that have no reputation as such, granted a 6.5-284 barrel will not live as long as a 30-30 but you are not fixing to shoot a 170gr core-lokt 1,000 yd either. Mil-spec 308s are rated at 12,000 rd of acceptable barrel life yet competition shooters don't get 1/3 of that because their idea of acceptable is much more precise even then sniper grade accuracy. So is any cartrage used in long range matches a "barrel burner"? I had someone call a 25 WSSM a barrel burner the other day, I politely informed him that the max charge of a 25 WSSM was the same as a 257 Roberts, so was the 257 Roberts a barrel burner all these years and nobody noticed?
     
  24. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    Congratulations on your decision. As these guys said, you can do this on a budget. A Savage is a good solid place to start. I will warn you, you might have to purchase all new hats. Constant 1k yard and longer shots often swell heads and the occasional ego, but it is worth it. I am not sure what I like more punching a target at long range or taking a shooter that has never done it and watching their reaction when they do it the first time. Keep us posted and let us know how your build goes.
     
  25. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

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