First AR

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Stew0576, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. Stew0576

    Stew0576 Addicted

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    Looks like I will be getting my first AR 15 soon, I'm looking for 5.56, want it light as possible, as close to 1 hole groups at 100 yards as I can get, lowest possible recoil so it stays on target, will be reloading for it, my budget will be 2k fully set up including all sights, my question is should I be looking for a pre-made or trust a local guy to get it right?

    Edit: I know nothing about AR's have only shot 2, first one was junk thought it was going to fall apart, second one was really nice
     
  2. 8Ball_99

    8Ball_99 Member

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    If you know nothing about them you are probably better off just buying a pre-made one. Shop around any model you find that interests you do some research. You really need to figure out your budget for the rifle itself and go from there. I know you said 2k for everything. But that's a huge question mark on the rifle. I mean if you plan to put a 140 red dot on it then you have a pretty big rifle budget.. if you are planning on buying a 1300 dollar LPVO then your rifle budget is somewhat limited lol. I'm sure you have looked a little,, ARs can range from 500 to 3k+.. Deciding if the higher end ones are worth the cost or not is extremely subjective.
     
  3. Stew0576

    Stew0576 Addicted

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    Thinking 1500 for the rifle, should be able to get a decent sight for 500
     
  4. 2ndtimer

    2ndtimer Member

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    If you are in New York, is it even legal to own/possess an AR-15 there?
     
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  5. Stew0576

    Stew0576 Addicted

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    Lol, yes but they have a bunch of stupid feel good rules
     
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  6. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    You mentioned accuracy requirements in a somewhat vague manner but is this meant to be a target style rifle? I ask because you also mention wanting as light a rifle as possible, which implies an alternative route.

    Most $150+ barrels can get you reasonably close to a ragged hole at 100 yards, given good ammo and shooter. Most lightweight rifles tend to offer more resistance to the shooter in performing the same feat.

    How do you plan to shoot? Bipod? Bags? Do you need an attachment system for accessories? These are all factors in a recommendation and for budgeting. Getting things wrong at the planning stage means digging deeper to correct things later.

    As for recommendations, I prefer build. I don’t trust others blindly to assemble it for me. I’d say you will want an adjustable gas block (AGB), rifle length gas system, 18” barrel (and I would choose at least a govt profile, a decent trigger, and a comfortable stock (featureless will restrict some choices here). Anything beyond these general guidelines is a blank for you to fill in.
     
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  7. Stew0576

    Stew0576 Addicted

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    This will fill the gap between handgun and bolt rifle for me, fun to play with but it's purposes would be primarily defense and varmints around the house
     
  8. CptnAwesome
    • Contributing Member

    CptnAwesome Contributing Member

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    I would stay away from the "local guy" unless you know he consistently puts out accurate, well built rifles. I've seen enough of em to know that a lot of people can put them together, but not all can consistently put together a smooth running, accurate rifle.
     
  9. Telekinesis

    Telekinesis Member

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    In general, and especially if you don’t know a lot about AR’s, get a gun built by a well known company. The “local guy” is almost never the right option with ARs unless he also happens to be a world class rifle smith.

    Defensive use and varmint use are usually on different ends of the spectrum for rifles. On the defensive side, I’d look at something like a BCM.

    What is your accuracy standard? “One hole groups” is a little nebulous. A 1 MOA rifle will make a one hole group if you shoot enough ammo at the target. But I assume you’re looking for a 0.5 or 0.25 MOA capable rifle? To get that level of accuracy, you’ll probably have to skew more towards a long range scoped rifle rather than a defensive gun.

    Your priorities of light, accurate, and low recoil are all competing against each other a little bit. The AR is already pretty light on recoil, but if you want less recoil the easiest way to do it is to add weight. That usually means a longer and/or heavier barrel. A light gun will usually have a shorter and thinner barrel, but that usually means when the barrel heats up it’ll cause the zero to move a bit (so not as great for accuracy). You can definitely find a happy medium between these depending on your use, but the lightest rifle won’t be the most accurate, and the most accurate won’t be light.

    Technique is also a good way to reduce the perceived effect of recoil, so I would place it last on the list as far as requirements. When you get into changing internals and messing with gas systems to lower the recoil impulse, you run the risk of making the rifle less reliable in certain situations. That’s fine for a target rifle, but not so much for a defensive rifle.

    Another thing to consider on the defensive side, I know 16” barrels are really popular but an 18” or 20” barrel gives you a better chance of punching through some level III hard armor, especially at close range. In my opinion a 18” barrel isn’t that much more difficult to use indoors unless you’re comparing it to a SBR.


    Budget wise, your split will probably depend a bit on your use. For a defensive rifle, I’m a firm believer that you need a sling, red dot (or LPVO, etc) BUIS, and a light. For a basic “buy once, cry once” setup you probably want at least $700-$1,000 in the budget for these. You can find things on sale and stretch the budget, but I wouldn’t expect my Sig Romeo 5 to put up with the same use as my Aimpoint.
     
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  10. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Time for a little AR 101: although there are several others, the primary gas system lengths for an AR are denoted by name as pistol, carbine, mid length, and rifle. Each of these derives its reliability from a narrow window of barrel length and correctly sized gas port (hole in the barrel).

    As you move to a longer barrel length, the recoil impulse will change from sharp to mild. As you correct gas flow through the operating system (using that AGB) to match your ammo, you come still closer to tuning out sharp recoil impulse. Now on a big budget, you could further refine things with a lightened bolt carrier group (BCG) and adjustable buffer to reduce muzzle jump.

    What I would use for SD/HD is a very different recommendation than the one for varmints, but it can be done with a few compromises.

    I am blissfully unaware of most NY restrictions though I gather most States having them provide a points system; featureless stock/muzzle device/etc. @troy fairweather might offer some insight here.
     
  11. imac98374

    imac98374 Member

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    https://worldoftroy.com/product/troy-folding-pump-action-rifle-optic-ready/

    I would think about this. The NY-compliant ARs look kind of like an abomination to me. You either give up the ergos to keep a detachable mag or you go fixed and you reload more slowly than your revolver.

    The mini-14 would probably be my pick, honestly.
     
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  12. Stew0576

    Stew0576 Addicted

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    The insane amount of choices is the problem I'm having, I'm not worried about felt recoil but about staying in target for follow up shots, 1 moa is acceptable, thank you all for your input, it's helping me understand better.
     
  13. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Hard to stress enough that parts selection can be a huge factor. Consider below: the AR pistol on left has an 10.5” barrel while the AR rifle on right wears a 16.1” barrel. Even before muzzle devices are factored in, they are separated by about 3” in OAL. The rifle is also (after adding a Handguard to the pistol) lighter by more than a pound.


    E1DC2D5A-BEA4-411D-AD02-818F1736BD0D.png
     
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  14. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Well, "NY compliant" certainly reduces the number of choices.

    In general, though, it's hard to fault 5.6 in an 18 or 20 inch barrel for being smooth and easy to keep on target.

    A seven pound AR in 5.56 handles in a very different manner than, say a seven pound 280 or 30-06 bolt gun.
     
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  15. sarduy

    sarduy Member

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    Lightweight and one ragged hole AR don’t mix,

    do yourself a favor and get a heavy match barrel 20-24" AR with a 6-24x scope and call a day.
     
  16. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    I have no idea what a "NY Compliant AR" looks like, but the best AR a beginner can start with is a Colt 6920. No messing with buffers, gas tubes, springs, just clean off the preservative, add a few drops of oil to the carrier, insert full magazine and get to shooting. You can worry about "upgrades" after you've shot the rifle enough to know what you want.
     
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  17. imac98374

    imac98374 Member

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    It looks like this
     

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  18. BigBlue 94

    BigBlue 94 Member

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    Good barrel and good trigger with a free float handguard are the main bullet points to building an AR. Mil-Spec triggers are awful out of the box for target shooting.

    Maybe you just want an AR15, but a Ruger Mini-14 with a Shilen match barrel might be a better choice from the compliancy standpoint: no pistol grip and no barrel threads. The Shilen barrel should take care of the mini's sub optimal factory accuracy.
     
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  19. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Stew your welcome to pm me for any questions, there are a few ways to go about building an ar in ny, depends what you want out of the gun.
     
  20. JeeperCreeper

    JeeperCreeper Member

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    Short answer without a long discussion:

    Get a BCM.
    https://bravocompanymfg.com/specification/bcm_recce16_mcmr.php

    But there are other plenty of good ones in your budget. The right I posted has a 1:7. I prefer 1:8 or 1:9 for cheap light ammo. But it's not an exact science.

    Daniel Defense, SOLGW, Aero, etc.

    For optics, I'd go midrange budget until you find what you like. SIG or Vortex until you decide how you like it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
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  21. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    There's no way to answer that without knowing if the "local guy" is nationally recognized and you give us a name.
     
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  22. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Of the shelf...LaRue, LMT, Bravo all make "precision" ARs. You can get a White Oak upper since that's where all the AR "magic" happens anyway and put it on a lower.
     
  23. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    BCM isn’t known for precision
     
  24. LonewolfMcquade

    LonewolfMcquade Member

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    You dont have to spend a fortune. I purchased this Mossberg varmint in 5.56 a few years ago IIRC for $580. 20" barrel, 1/9 twist. Good enough to get 1" or better groups at 200 yards using ball ammo. 55gr&62gr. Really loves the 55gr Hornady varmint rounds. Consistently kill groundhogs out to 600 yards with it.

    Nikon bdc600 scope $350?, CMC 3.5lb match trigger $100(factory mil spec trigger was HORRIBLE!!) I did change the A2 stock out for the Magpul rifle stock, wasn't necessary though. All toll, approximately $1200ish tied up into this VERY ACCURATE rifle.

    Screenshot_20210620-000454_Gallery.jpg
     
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  25. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Both are quite nice bits of kit.

    Sadly for OP, neither are NY-compliant.

    From memory the NY SAFE act is a "single feature" to define salt weps. So, it's magazine or pistol grip or self-loading, but no combination of those.
     
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