First CZ ever, think I have a problem. Drops to half cock in DA

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1KPerDay

1KPerDay

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I found this CZ75b Omega at Cabelas of all places. First EVER good deal there. $400. Sales dudes were really having a close look at the sales tag but I got it, 2 mags. No apparent wear anywhere.

I've shot it a few times and have had buddies shoot it and they all liked it. The DA trigger is a bit gritty and the SA trigger has no discernible wall. It just rolls through and the hammer falls. It's kinda nice but it's weird if you're used to prepping the trigger.

Anyhoo today I was doing some dry fire practice, lowering the hammer manually to its full rested position after "loading", as required by IDPA SSP rules. Trying some draws/first shots in DA dry fire, I noticed once something felt different. The hammer fell to half cock rather than full rest on a DA stroke. I dismissed it and thought maybe I'd done something weird like fail to run the slide fully or something. Then about 20 pulls later it did it again.

So obviously something ain't kosher. Should I call CZ? Should I spend more than half again the cost of the gun for a Cajun Omega kit? Really do t have the money or desire to do that. Ideas welcome. Pics are probably huge but you know what half cock vs full rest look like
 
I don't have a whole slew of experience with CZ pistols, but the first picture looks exactly the same as my DA/SA HK's and Sigs. You pull the trigger and the hammer hits the firing pin. When using the decocking lever, the hammer is dropped so that it is slightly away from the firing pin. I can get the hammer to rest against the firing pin only if I lower the hammer from SA by pulling the trigger and easing the hammer down. THIS IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO DECOCK THE GUN! Use the mechanical decocking lever.
 
I'm thinking live fire before calling CZ may be needed. Run a box or two of ammo. As I said, the gun may be behaving as intended. My Sigs and HK's in DA will strike the firing pin and then come to final rest a tiny bit away from the firing pin since there is no cycling of the action to go to SA. Also try racking the slide and leaving the gun SA then using the decocking lever to see where the hammer drops to. Again it should be just a bit away from the firing pin.
 
I would agree with the suggestion to call or email or message CZ. They should be able to answer the question. Any chance that the hammer is falling all the way, but with enough force to bounce back to the half-cock* notch?

*Which, from the pictures, is really more of a 1/6 cock notch!
 
If you were DA dry firing and the hammer dropped to half cock and didn't hit the pin, that's a CZ issue. If it rebounded and came to rest in half cock, I still think that's not right and you should call CZ.
 
Winkman822 said:
I'm thinking live fire before calling CZ may be needed. Run a box or two of ammo. As I said, the gun may be behaving as intended. My Sigs and HK's in DA will strike the firing pin and then come to final rest a tiny bit away from the firing pin since there is no cycling of the action to go to SA. Also try racking the slide and leaving the gun SA then using the decocking lever to see where the hammer drops to. Again it should be just a bit away from the firing pin.
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CZ75s don't work like this. There is no rebound spring nor is there a decocking lever. If you want a DA start you have to decock manually.
 
Winkman822 said:
I don't have a whole slew of experience with CZ pistols, but the first picture looks exactly the same as my DA/SA HK's and Sigs. You pull the trigger and the hammer hits the firing pin. When using the decocking lever, the hammer is dropped so that it is slightly away from the firing pin. I can get the hammer to rest against the firing pin only if I lower the hammer from SA by pulling the trigger and easing the hammer down. THIS IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO DECOCK THE GUN! Use the mechanical decocking lever.
Click to expand...
CZ75s don't work that way. Think Hi Power with a DA trigger. There is no decocking lever. There is no rebounding hammer like SIGs and HKs.
 
Winkman822 said:
I'm thinking live fire before calling CZ may be needed. Run a box or two of ammo. As I said, the gun may be behaving as intended. My Sigs and HK's in DA will strike the firing pin and then come to final rest a tiny bit away from the firing pin since there is no cycling of the action to go to SA. Also try racking the slide and leaving the gun SA then using the decocking lever to see where the hammer drops to. Again it should be just a bit away from the firing pin.
Click to expand...
Yes HKs and Sigs do this, but I recently fondled a CZ Shadow 2, and I'm pretty sure the 75 design doesn't have a rebounding hammer.
 
ATLDave said:
I would agree with the suggestion to call or email or message CZ. They should be able to answer the question. Any chance that the hammer is falling all the way, but with enough force to bounce back to the half-cock* notch?

*Which, from the pictures, is really more of a 1/6 cock notch!
Click to expand...
i don't think so. It feels different from the other DA pulls. It just drops to the 1/2 notch position. As noted, inconsistently. It's very weird. I'll call CZ I guess.
 
1KPerDay said:
i don't think so. It feels different from the other DA pulls. It just drops to the 1/2 notch position. As noted, inconsistently. It's very weird. I'll call CZ I guess.
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You said the trigger feels gritty? Every CZ75 I've dry fired has had a smooth ass trigger.

It sounds like there might be something going on with your DA sear notch.
 
I would say this is a good time to learn about the CZ trigger mechanism; it isn't Glock-simple, but it isn't bad either. It is a good knowledge base to have if you are going to get into CZs. Most parts are pretty cheap.

First thing I'd do is pin the trigger to the rear and then rotate the hammer through its entire motion slowly. Are there any hangups or slow, dragging feeling spots along the way? If so, you have a minor problem: The primary hammer hook(s) or decock notch is partially engaging the sear when it should not.

If the rotation of the hammer is smooth/even throughout the travel, I would bet you are getting some kind of bounce back. Not "normal" but probably not a huge deal...

How much live ammo through it? Any issues?
 
No issues at all firing live ammo. Probably 300 rounds max so far. But less than 1/20th of those have been DA pulls. I'll check out the hammer as you suggest.
 
If the CZ doesn't have a rebounding hammer, then a call to CZ sounds like the ticket. I was also unaware that the 75 didn't have a decocking function. That just seems odd to me for a DA/SA not to have a decocker.
 
Winkman822 said:
I was also unaware that the 75 didn't have a decocking function. That just seems odd to me for a DA/SA not to have a decocker.
Click to expand...

Many CZ's and all current model DA/SA Tanfoglios are no-decocker guns. They are very popular guns in competition... I get to RO between 500 and 1000 instances of shooters manually lowering those hammers every year!
 
No issues at all firing live ammo. Probably 300 rounds max so far. But less than 1/20th of those have been DA pulls. I'll check out the hammer as you suggest.
Click to expand...

The difference between a DA and SA pull here should be minimal; the DA breaks just a little bit sooner so the hammer drops with a little bit less energy, but unless you are taking your hammer and firing pin spring rates down to the limit, it shouldn't really matter here.
 
Ok something definitely wrong. I checked out the hammer travel with the trigger held back and it's smooth. Then I fired a 16-round mag DA for all shots and had 3 failures to ignite. DA restrike set off the first one, then the second took 3 restrikes and the third it dropped to the half cock notch, then later in the mag it dropped to half cock on the first DA attempt with a live round in the chamber. So it can't be bounceback or whatever. Something's out of spec or broken.
 
So when you pin the trigger back and rotate the hammer manually, it is smooth all the way down to firing pin impact, but when you pull the trigger and let it fly full speed you are getting light strike? Or no strike when it doesn't work?
 
ny32182 said:
So when you pin the trigger back and rotate the hammer manually, it is smooth all the way down to firing pin impact, but when you pull the trigger and let it fly full speed you are getting light strike? Or no strike when it doesn't work?
Click to expand...
Not sure exactly what you mean by the last bit, but yes the hammer seems to move freely with no roughness or other weirdness when rotated manually. When dry firing DA and now live firing DA, it either light strikes OR drops directly to the half cock notch. It's done both now.
 
Perhaps a good cleaning/ inspection of the trigger group will shed a little light? It was a used gun right? I cant imagine cabelas selling a questionable firearm at discount with the liability involved but otherwise i would also point to the price as a possible indication of previous issues.
 
It's a possibility. I can't see anything funky in the trigger group. All the parts have factory black coating; no evidence of filing or other foul play.
 
Well CZ called me back. Dude was very friendly but since I can't prove I bought the gun new within the last 5 years they won't warranty it. He looked up the serial and it was imported in 2009. I could still get it fixed by them but he said the minimum repair charge is $120 plus I have to pay to ship, so add $75. So I'm at $200 for factory repair.

I'm considering saving for a Cajun kit... but from what I can see that only includes the hammer, firing pin, and some springs unless I'm misunderstanding something. So if it's a sear/trigger bar issue it won't fix the problem anyway.

I was reading on Cajun site and found this:

"Getting the right roller is critical for proper system timing and reliable operation. The OEM roller OD size can vary from .212″ to .224″. The question is why? At the Czech factory a variety of rollers are on hand during final assembly which corrects the “fall to disconnector” timing issue inherent in the CZ design.

CGW recommends checking the OEM roller with a dial caliper or micrometer. If the OEM roller measures .212″ – .222″, use the CGW .220″ roller. If your roller measures over .224″, consult CGW tech support."

I wonder if this is the problem I'm having. Maybe I'll call cajun and see what they say.
 
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