Stover954rr
Member
WOW!!!! France has MORE lenient gun laws than New York!!! I couldn't own half the things on there (legally). Thanks for sharing with us!
~Stover
~Stover
FIRST FRENCH AR15France meeting
- Thread starter frenchbushmaster
- Start date
- Status
TheArchDuke
Member
Let's see...
I count 19 things in that picture that I couldn't own here in California. I might have missed a few though haha
I count 19 things in that picture that I couldn't own here in California. I might have missed a few though haha
Well-Armed Lamb
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2006
- Messages
- 69
Vive les French gun-nuts! Cool post.
MartinBrody
Member
google will translate french to english if you want to check out the french site
Thanks for the post. Anyone here on The High Road who wants to check out their site, AR15France.com, but doesn't read/write French can try out Google's language tools. I am having very good luck using their translation feature. Just open google in a new browser, click language tools to the right of the search field, copy and paste text from ar15france.com and paste it into the field that says translate, choose french to english, then click translate. Pretty cool.
Thanks for the post. Anyone here on The High Road who wants to check out their site, AR15France.com, but doesn't read/write French can try out Google's language tools. I am having very good luck using their translation feature. Just open google in a new browser, click language tools to the right of the search field, copy and paste text from ar15france.com and paste it into the field that says translate, choose french to english, then click translate. Pretty cool.
MartinBrody
Member
looks like google will translate the whole site if you check out the translate a web page feature, it is just below the translate text feature.
SoCalShooter
Member
Nice!! but i have a question?
I thought the French were not allowed to have those types of weapons?
I thought the French were not allowed to have those types of weapons?
Ohio Rifleman
Member
Was that a suppressor I saw on one of your pistols? What do you have to do to get one of those in France? It's a pain here, if your state even allows that sort of thing.
frenchbushmaster
Member
If you want see me I'm the guy in the first line behind the BREN with the OD Blackhawk vest1.
Thank you, but I'm not the best new member.
Probably I'm the most exotic
Like Say Silvanus, we have many guns here in Europe.
You could be surprise If you come visit us.
Except that we are not a big community.
So we are discreet.
We used to say "for live happy, live hide".
I will re-give you the French legislation about guns in the next post.
But for short answer your questionSocalshooter, we could buy any weapons like assault rifle (semi-automatique only) if you are an official shooter and after approximatly one year of different procedure, request and investigations.
And we could buy only 7 central primer assault rifles or hand guns.
And 5 handguns or semi-automatiques rifles using rimfire cartridge (22LR, 22 mag or 17 HMR).
And for the lever action,bolt action, etc... No limit if using a civilan caliber (300WinchMag, 338 LAPUA MAG, etc..).
For exemple a sniper rifle using .50BMG cartridge is classified in your quota of 7 central primer weapons .But you could have it.
See you, Mick.
Thank you, but I'm not the best new member.
Probably I'm the most exotic
Like Say Silvanus, we have many guns here in Europe.
You could be surprise If you come visit us.
Except that we are not a big community.
So we are discreet.
We used to say "for live happy, live hide".
I will re-give you the French legislation about guns in the next post.
But for short answer your questionSocalshooter, we could buy any weapons like assault rifle (semi-automatique only) if you are an official shooter and after approximatly one year of different procedure, request and investigations.
And we could buy only 7 central primer assault rifles or hand guns.
And 5 handguns or semi-automatiques rifles using rimfire cartridge (22LR, 22 mag or 17 HMR).
And for the lever action,bolt action, etc... No limit if using a civilan caliber (300WinchMag, 338 LAPUA MAG, etc..).
For exemple a sniper rifle using .50BMG cartridge is classified in your quota of 7 central primer weapons .But you could have it.
See you, Mick.
frenchbushmaster
Member
I re-give you here the french law description I send to OLEG.
Our legislation is not so bad. And I will be happy to be sure to stay in actual definition.
BUT ! Any new government could change the law and suddenly destroy it and suppress our rightful to have guns. We are always in danger. English history is the nightmare of all the Europeans shooters.
We could have 12 weapons classified in 1st and 4th categories.
7 with central primer (1st or 4th categories central primer) and 5 with rim fire cartridge ( 4th Category chapter 2) all rim fire weapon semi-automatique rifles or handguns pistols and revolvers (22 LR, 22 magnum, 17 HMR).
I think in a first time we must explain we have 8 categories of weapons.
1st and 4th categories are the main important for us here.
The 1st category
Chapter 1 :
It’s all semi-automatique handgun weapons over 7.65 mm. caliber.
Chapter 2 :
For the rifle and carbines in military caliber (semi-automatique or bolt action carbines and rifles). A military cliber is a caliber used in regular army (5.56 nato, 7.62x51, 7.62x39, .50 BMG, etc..)
The 4th category is a bit more complex.
Chapter 1 :
It’s for all revolver with central primer cartridge (38 spe, 44 mag, 357 mag, 45 LC, etc.) and the semi-automatique handgun in caliber 7.65 or less big like the 6.25mm using central pimer and with barrel under 110 mm lenght.
Chapter 2 :
For all semi-automatique handgun, rifles and carbines and revolver using rimfire ammo (22 LR, etc.).
chapter 5 :
For semi-automatique rifles in civilian caliber. Like the AR15 in .222 remington.
1st and 4th categories weapons could only be buy by a shooter member of a shooting club over 21 years old after 6 months of shooting and with an authorization delivered by authorities. Authorization you have to confirm every 3 years.
2nd and 3rd categories are completely prohibited. It's machinegun, full auto weapons, bazooka, grenade and explosives, war plane, combat ship, tank, nuclear chemical or bacteriologic weapons.
5th and 6th sorry, I dont remember details, but you have edge weapons in one of this category and all the rifle in bolt action or lever action using civilian caliber.
For all bolt action rifles in civilian caliber, as 300 Winch Mag, 338 Lapua magnum, 7.08, 30.30, etc... no problem. If you are shooter or hunter, you could buy all that you want. Same thing for the ammo, you could have 10 000 cartridges, no limit. This is the reason why I prefer My AR15 in hunting caliber 222 rem. I have no limit for my cartridges.
7th category is for "armes de salon" if I try a translation, I said weapons for exposition more than for shooting. For exemple all the copy of muzzle loading weapon (uberti, pietta, etc...) are in this category. Compress air guns are in this category too.
8th category is for weapons of collection. If it's a french weapon, this weapon is in this category if older than 1890. For other country’s weapons it must be older than 1873.
Modern production of this weapons using metallic cartridge (schofield, SAA1873, etc.) are not free. They are in 4th category.
Only original model of metallic cartridge and modern or old model of muzzle loading handgun are 8th category free access like remington 1858, colt dragoon, paterson, etc....
Summit :
For 2nd and 3rd categories. Impossible to possess this weapons models.
For 1st and 4th, you must be sport shooter, over 21 years old and need to have an authorization delivered by authority. Authorization you have to confirm every 3 years.
For all other categories 5, 6, 7 and 8th it's free.
You must just be over 18 years old and be member of a shooting club or hunter. No limit about quantity of weapons you possess and same thing for ammunitions. You are registered on the Gunsmith book of sell and you declare too your police office you have this guns and that’s all.
Just some specific points:
a) Silencers are completely free access.
b) Night vision are only class 1 access (maybe class 2 ??).
c) NVG are classified like weapon in 1st category.
d) Laser are free access but usually max power is 5 mW.
e) Classic 2 shoot 12/70 or 12/76 rifles for hunting are free access for hunter and shooter.
BUT !! If it's a semi-automatic rifle it must be maximum 3 shoot (2+1)
If is tubular magasin is over 2 cartridges capacity it became a 4th category.
Finally, if this rifle is a riot gun (pump action gun) it's completely prohibited. Because in popular imagination it's the weapon of bad guys. Therefore, authority prohibited this weapon completely. Stupid!? Yes !
Last point for explain that all is not so easy:
If your weapon is in a definition free and than only one element is classified in 1st or 4th categories. Your weapons become a 1st or 4th categories weapon.
Example: I want buy a modern henry rifle carbine from Uberti manufacture. It’s a lever action, conception older than 1873. I could think no problem. It’s a 7th category. But in reality it’s a 5th category because it’s a rifle or a carabine and not a handgun. And it could become very fast a 4th category. The nightmare begins!
If I want buy it, I need to choice 44.40 caliber. It’s a caliber unclassified. If I buy it in 45 L.C. it’s a classified ammo (4th category ammo), so The rifle follow the cartridge and become a 4th category rifle. Other point, If the rifle is too short (total length under 81 cm and/or barrel under 45 cm) the weapon is consider like too compact and is classified 4th category. Last point, If you decide to buy the long rifle model, the problem is the number of cartridge in magasine. If over 10 ammo, you become again a 4th category weapon.
Finaly you could only buy a long rifle model in 44.40 Caliber with a maximum capacity of 10 cartridges. Complex!! Really, you think!! HA HA HA HA !
It’s not a law we have in France, it’s a labyrinth.
I hope I was clear.
Our legislation is not so bad. And I will be happy to be sure to stay in actual definition.
BUT ! Any new government could change the law and suddenly destroy it and suppress our rightful to have guns. We are always in danger. English history is the nightmare of all the Europeans shooters.
We could have 12 weapons classified in 1st and 4th categories.
7 with central primer (1st or 4th categories central primer) and 5 with rim fire cartridge ( 4th Category chapter 2) all rim fire weapon semi-automatique rifles or handguns pistols and revolvers (22 LR, 22 magnum, 17 HMR).
I think in a first time we must explain we have 8 categories of weapons.
1st and 4th categories are the main important for us here.
The 1st category
Chapter 1 :
It’s all semi-automatique handgun weapons over 7.65 mm. caliber.
Chapter 2 :
For the rifle and carbines in military caliber (semi-automatique or bolt action carbines and rifles). A military cliber is a caliber used in regular army (5.56 nato, 7.62x51, 7.62x39, .50 BMG, etc..)
The 4th category is a bit more complex.
Chapter 1 :
It’s for all revolver with central primer cartridge (38 spe, 44 mag, 357 mag, 45 LC, etc.) and the semi-automatique handgun in caliber 7.65 or less big like the 6.25mm using central pimer and with barrel under 110 mm lenght.
Chapter 2 :
For all semi-automatique handgun, rifles and carbines and revolver using rimfire ammo (22 LR, etc.).
chapter 5 :
For semi-automatique rifles in civilian caliber. Like the AR15 in .222 remington.
1st and 4th categories weapons could only be buy by a shooter member of a shooting club over 21 years old after 6 months of shooting and with an authorization delivered by authorities. Authorization you have to confirm every 3 years.
2nd and 3rd categories are completely prohibited. It's machinegun, full auto weapons, bazooka, grenade and explosives, war plane, combat ship, tank, nuclear chemical or bacteriologic weapons.
5th and 6th sorry, I dont remember details, but you have edge weapons in one of this category and all the rifle in bolt action or lever action using civilian caliber.
For all bolt action rifles in civilian caliber, as 300 Winch Mag, 338 Lapua magnum, 7.08, 30.30, etc... no problem. If you are shooter or hunter, you could buy all that you want. Same thing for the ammo, you could have 10 000 cartridges, no limit. This is the reason why I prefer My AR15 in hunting caliber 222 rem. I have no limit for my cartridges.
7th category is for "armes de salon" if I try a translation, I said weapons for exposition more than for shooting. For exemple all the copy of muzzle loading weapon (uberti, pietta, etc...) are in this category. Compress air guns are in this category too.
8th category is for weapons of collection. If it's a french weapon, this weapon is in this category if older than 1890. For other country’s weapons it must be older than 1873.
Modern production of this weapons using metallic cartridge (schofield, SAA1873, etc.) are not free. They are in 4th category.
Only original model of metallic cartridge and modern or old model of muzzle loading handgun are 8th category free access like remington 1858, colt dragoon, paterson, etc....
Summit :
For 2nd and 3rd categories. Impossible to possess this weapons models.
For 1st and 4th, you must be sport shooter, over 21 years old and need to have an authorization delivered by authority. Authorization you have to confirm every 3 years.
For all other categories 5, 6, 7 and 8th it's free.
You must just be over 18 years old and be member of a shooting club or hunter. No limit about quantity of weapons you possess and same thing for ammunitions. You are registered on the Gunsmith book of sell and you declare too your police office you have this guns and that’s all.
Just some specific points:
a) Silencers are completely free access.
b) Night vision are only class 1 access (maybe class 2 ??).
c) NVG are classified like weapon in 1st category.
d) Laser are free access but usually max power is 5 mW.
e) Classic 2 shoot 12/70 or 12/76 rifles for hunting are free access for hunter and shooter.
BUT !! If it's a semi-automatic rifle it must be maximum 3 shoot (2+1)
If is tubular magasin is over 2 cartridges capacity it became a 4th category.
Finally, if this rifle is a riot gun (pump action gun) it's completely prohibited. Because in popular imagination it's the weapon of bad guys. Therefore, authority prohibited this weapon completely. Stupid!? Yes !
Last point for explain that all is not so easy:
If your weapon is in a definition free and than only one element is classified in 1st or 4th categories. Your weapons become a 1st or 4th categories weapon.
Example: I want buy a modern henry rifle carbine from Uberti manufacture. It’s a lever action, conception older than 1873. I could think no problem. It’s a 7th category. But in reality it’s a 5th category because it’s a rifle or a carabine and not a handgun. And it could become very fast a 4th category. The nightmare begins!
If I want buy it, I need to choice 44.40 caliber. It’s a caliber unclassified. If I buy it in 45 L.C. it’s a classified ammo (4th category ammo), so The rifle follow the cartridge and become a 4th category rifle. Other point, If the rifle is too short (total length under 81 cm and/or barrel under 45 cm) the weapon is consider like too compact and is classified 4th category. Last point, If you decide to buy the long rifle model, the problem is the number of cartridge in magasine. If over 10 ammo, you become again a 4th category weapon.
Finaly you could only buy a long rifle model in 44.40 Caliber with a maximum capacity of 10 cartridges. Complex!! Really, you think!! HA HA HA HA !
It’s not a law we have in France, it’s a labyrinth.
I hope I was clear.
frenchbushmaster
Member
Yes Ohio Rifleman.
It's a silencer for my CZ Kadet 22 L.R.
We could buy any silencer like our bread to the bakery.
It's an accessory not classified and not recognised like a main parts of gun.
We have very good silencer in Europe like switzerland Brugger&thomet. But very explensive.
My friend using AR15 rifle and I, we try to import AAC (M4-1000 and M4-2000) or Surefire (Phantom) silencer with flash hider. But IMPOSSIBLE because your law say it's an unauthorised parts for export from USA.
And I must say that we are realy angry and frustrate obout this stupid law.
See you.
It's a silencer for my CZ Kadet 22 L.R.
We could buy any silencer like our bread to the bakery.
It's an accessory not classified and not recognised like a main parts of gun.
We have very good silencer in Europe like switzerland Brugger&thomet. But very explensive.
My friend using AR15 rifle and I, we try to import AAC (M4-1000 and M4-2000) or Surefire (Phantom) silencer with flash hider. But IMPOSSIBLE because your law say it's an unauthorised parts for export from USA.
And I must say that we are realy angry and frustrate obout this stupid law.
See you.
rocinante
Member
someone commented on the group photo and muzzles. First thing that impressed me is everyone who had their hand on the trigger has their finger indexed outside as should be. Nice collection of firearms and men. As a louisiana cajun you guys aren't doing too bad as frenchmen either. Come to my mama's house and she will teach you cooking though.
Ohio Rifleman
Member
That is a major plus for France, and some of these other European countries in general, like Switzerland. Silencers here are treated the same as machine guns.
thorn726
Member
dumb questions
ok WoW! great pics-
but ok the barrel- is that to catch shells or what is the reason for shooting through that??
also (ha) looks like they need better smoke eaters in there for those type of weapons! (or is that just a weird photo effect? looks very smoky in there)
ok WoW! great pics-
but ok the barrel- is that to catch shells or what is the reason for shooting through that??
also (ha) looks like they need better smoke eaters in there for those type of weapons! (or is that just a weird photo effect? looks very smoky in there)
Warren
Member
So I wonder if, with Frenchies limited to seven centerfire rifles, that induces them to buy the most potent rifles they can.
In other words does this law mean that combat-able weapons are chosen much more than say pistol cal carbines or lower quality mag fed semi-auto rifles.
In short, does this concentrate the number of fighting weapons in the hands of French shooters?
In other words does this law mean that combat-able weapons are chosen much more than say pistol cal carbines or lower quality mag fed semi-auto rifles.
In short, does this concentrate the number of fighting weapons in the hands of French shooters?
romma
Member
Awesome Dudes!! Viva La France!!
Waitone
Member
Look at all the evil just laying around! I love it! BTW, was your shooting match sanctioned by any particular gun organization or was it just a bunch of French bubbas having a good time?
tinygnat219
Member
First of all,
THANK YOU for the pictures. I needed the mop to clean up my drool.
Second of all,
WOW to your collection. That's impressive.
Third of all,
If you are ever in the US, specifically in the DC area, give me a PM and I would be happy to take you out and shoot and to have a beer.
Fourth of all,
Thank you for correcting us ignoramuses on European gun rights. It's nice to know we have friends over there and that we aren't in this fight all alone!
THANK YOU for the pictures. I needed the mop to clean up my drool.
Second of all,
WOW to your collection. That's impressive.
Third of all,
If you are ever in the US, specifically in the DC area, give me a PM and I would be happy to take you out and shoot and to have a beer.
Fourth of all,
Thank you for correcting us ignoramuses on European gun rights. It's nice to know we have friends over there and that we aren't in this fight all alone!
Roadrunner NV
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2007
- Messages
- 45
frenchbushmaster that's a nice collection you've got there
Ca fait plaisir de voir des passionés de l'autre coté de l'Atlantique, bon tir les amis et soyez prudents.
Hey guys if you stop in Nevada let me know, it could be fun ;-)
Ca fait plaisir de voir des passionés de l'autre coté de l'Atlantique, bon tir les amis et soyez prudents.
Hey guys if you stop in Nevada let me know, it could be fun ;-)
Last edited:
frenchbushmaster
Member
rocinante :
The security is always the best priority.
We must absolutly apply the safe rules.
Ohio Rifleman :
YES !! Our law about silencer is realy a great advantage.
We dont used it enought. But all the Assault rifle shooter want one.
And we dream of your AAC and Surefire model we could not buy
Thorn726 :
AH AH AH !!
We have many different flash hider and some are realy impressive.
I think like we are indoor the like make you see a loot the smooke.
The munition used are Wolf or Barnaud. Perhaps it’s more smoky cartridge ?
Warren :
The quota of weapons we could have is one of the good point in the law evolution in France.
Like I explain in the OLEG post, the law changed in 1995 and we lost the freedom to buy easily a semi-automatique rifles in civilian caliber or Full automatique assault rifle.
But for not have some problem with peoples who had these weapon before the law change. The quota of guns by shooter have grow. Before 1995 we only could buy 4 centrale primer weapon. So we hope one day we will kill this limit. It’s probably the best way for us in the futur and perhaps some evolution about collection weapons for free the access to some more modern guns (actual limit 1873 => futur 1900).
WAITONE :
This match was just for fun.
Our primary target was to meet the other AR15 shooter from France (Belgium, Switzerland and Luxembourg)
IPSC or 3 gun competition dont exist in France.
Official competition for these weapon are only precision shooting. 300m classique IUT or 200m TAR (Regular weapon shooting)
If I well remember this IPSC Assault rifle exist in Luxembourg.
If Silvanus could confirm ?
Tinygnat219 and Roadrunner NV :
Thank’s a lot guy’s !
If I visit USA, I hope meet some shooter for big fun on shooting range and discussion about our passion.
See you, I go to the shooting range.
The security is always the best priority.
We must absolutly apply the safe rules.
Ohio Rifleman :
YES !! Our law about silencer is realy a great advantage.
We dont used it enought. But all the Assault rifle shooter want one.
And we dream of your AAC and Surefire model we could not buy
Thorn726 :
AH AH AH !!
We have many different flash hider and some are realy impressive.
I think like we are indoor the like make you see a loot the smooke.
The munition used are Wolf or Barnaud. Perhaps it’s more smoky cartridge ?
Warren :
The quota of weapons we could have is one of the good point in the law evolution in France.
Like I explain in the OLEG post, the law changed in 1995 and we lost the freedom to buy easily a semi-automatique rifles in civilian caliber or Full automatique assault rifle.
But for not have some problem with peoples who had these weapon before the law change. The quota of guns by shooter have grow. Before 1995 we only could buy 4 centrale primer weapon. So we hope one day we will kill this limit. It’s probably the best way for us in the futur and perhaps some evolution about collection weapons for free the access to some more modern guns (actual limit 1873 => futur 1900).
WAITONE :
This match was just for fun.
Our primary target was to meet the other AR15 shooter from France (Belgium, Switzerland and Luxembourg)
IPSC or 3 gun competition dont exist in France.
Official competition for these weapon are only precision shooting. 300m classique IUT or 200m TAR (Regular weapon shooting)
If I well remember this IPSC Assault rifle exist in Luxembourg.
If Silvanus could confirm ?
Tinygnat219 and Roadrunner NV :
Thank’s a lot guy’s !
If I visit USA, I hope meet some shooter for big fun on shooting range and discussion about our passion.
See you, I go to the shooting range.
frenchbushmaster
Member
Just for fun I re-give you this little video of My brother (SOPMODM4) our friend (The Undertaker) and I (Bushmaster).
last winter empty mags ops.
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=sceance_ar15_fun_011106_mini_musiqu.flv
last winter empty mags ops.
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=sceance_ar15_fun_011106_mini_musiqu.flv
Warren
Member
Cool vid. Great music, who is that?
You should post your vids on German video-sharing sites.....
You should post your vids on German video-sharing sites.....
Silvanus
Member
Great video!
I'm not sure about that myself. There was a ISPC-like competition at a shooting range last month (I wasn't there unfortunately), but that was with pistols only. I don't know if there is a range that is set up for such competitions with pistols AND rifles. But my shooting has improved lately and I'm searching for a more interesting range at the moment. Where there is not only a standard 15m-25m shooting stand. I'd like to visit a range like in your video, that is outdoors and where you can move around and go as close or far away from the target as you want to.
I'm not sure about that myself. There was a ISPC-like competition at a shooting range last month (I wasn't there unfortunately), but that was with pistols only. I don't know if there is a range that is set up for such competitions with pistols AND rifles. But my shooting has improved lately and I'm searching for a more interesting range at the moment. Where there is not only a standard 15m-25m shooting stand. I'd like to visit a range like in your video, that is outdoors and where you can move around and go as close or far away from the target as you want to.
Microlon
Member
Frenchbushmaster, thank you for the education! It's good to see people around the world enjoying shooting sports, and I believe you've done a lot here to improve relations between the US and France, at least on a personal level.
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