First Glock...20 or 21

[ljnowell]

Well in no way is the Glock 20 a comp pistol. What it is, is a pistol with a sloppy chamber that doesn't even come with a relieved ejection port. All things that the OP should be made aware of. The G21 does not provide full support of the casehead either, but the round it fires is loaded at or under 21,000 PSI making it a safer bet.

And as far as Glocks being made in the US, that's avery recent development isn't it. The majority of the pistols already in the US came from Austria.

And KBs are a fact, all you have to do is go to Glock Talk to read all about 'em.

You spend a lot of time harping and moaning about the unsupported chamber. You know, the one that isnt a problem for all the guys that own them. That seems to be every XD guys bragging point. Big deal. You can shoot full power 10mm without bulging brass, so whats the problem? If you want more support, buy an aftermarket barrel. Kinda like that aftermarket trigger you put in your XD.

 

[hentown]

I just consider the bleating of the "unsupported chamber" crowd to be the drivel of the ignorant proletariat...mostly guys who don't own Glocks and don't know jack about firearms in general!!

 

[powder]

Yes, the G21 will take a 10mm conversion barrel from Storm Lake quite beautifully-like sex.

I'm not aware of a .45 conversion barrel for the G20s.

Yes, the G20 is a competition pistol, the same as G17/19/20/21/24, etc., etc..

Yes, the Smyrna GA Glock factory is here to stay, as they have proven themselves; that's the way it is October 30th, 2012.

For a 1st Glock I'd recommend the G19 or 34, then get into the .45s for hearty shootings.

 

[CZ57]

You spend a lot of time harping and moaning about the unsupported chamber. You know, the one that isnt a problem for all the guys that own them. That seems to be every XD guys bragging point. Big deal. You can shoot full power 10mm without bulging brass, so whats the problem? If you want more support, buy an aftermarket barrel. Kinda like that aftermarket trigger you put in your XD.

Actually, I spend time harping on unsupported chambers and the absence of a relieved ejection port. If you really shoot full power 10mm and some of the nuclear handloads reported across many forums you will get case bulge. Without a relieved ejection port the ejected case strikes the slide upon ejection causing scars on the casemouth that can lead to premature casemouth splitting. Not to mention the fact that some shooters are also reporting cases being ejected right back into their faces.

I have owned Glocks and know them pretty well. Watch an AGI gunsmithing video and one of the important issues that the gunsmiths bring up is the lack of a relieved ejection port and that the issue should be resolved. This is the only combat pistol in the world that I'm aware of where the manufacturer decided to save some money and skip a fairly easy machining operation.

Now consider the two posts that followed yours. This is the typical response of shooters who just don't know any better. Most Glock buyers are newer shooters that haven't learned the importance of things like chamber support and relieved ejection ports. Sure, Glocks are popular with cops, but the vast majority of them are not gun advocates nor are many of them active shooters.

And one of the reasons you won't find an XD/XDm or a S&W M&P chambered in 10mm is because of irresponsible reloading practices by Glock 10mm owners. Yeah, I spent some money to get a superb trigger in my XDm, But, most Glock owners do the same. Considering the cost of a properly fitted conventionally rifled barrel for the Glock and it's no contest. The XDm comes with a conventionally rifled match grade barrel that fully supports the casehead in ALL CALIBERS.

 

[powder]

The typical anti-cop response, which generalizes that cops are not shooters, nor do we advocate gun use. It's somehow bundled into this anti-Glock sentiment? Very immature, and definitely not the High Road to be angling toward the anti-LE bigotry.

..." just don't know any better." Yup, I'm a multi-brand Armorer, IPSC/IDPA competitor, NRA Instructor in (3) fields, and a MAG Instructor among other disciplines and practiced credentials-and I don't know any better than what/who? You have very cute and manipulative ways with words, but no content therein.

The OP asked Glock-minded folks about our opinions on two Glock models. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't like Law Enforcement in the U.S., just feel free to slip across the border into Mexico. Clear?

Now consider the two posts that followed yours. This is the typical response of shooters who just don't know any better. Most Glock buyers are newer shooters that haven't learned the importance of things like chamber support and relieved ejection ports. Sure, Glocks are popular with cops, but the vast majority of them are not gun advocates nor are many of them active shooters.

 

[CZ57]

So having said your piece, are you going to recommend the OP get pistol that doesn't have a relieved ejection port and offers poor support of the casehead?

If you bother to check, I did recommend to him that of the two pistols in question, I would recommend the G21 firing a 21,000 PSI cartridge vs. the G20 firing a 37,500 PSI cartridge. With the credentials you're touting I think you should be able to understand that. Not what's best for YOU, but what's best for the OP.

My statement about many cops not being shooting enthusiast or proactive gun advocates is simply a matter of fact more often than not admitted by LE officers. In no way was it meant to be a slur against LE in general. You're trying to make that generalization, not me.

 

[GLOOB]

If you are not a handloader, then the 45acp would be the better of the two, IMO, as far as availability and selection.

Double edged sword, here. As a handloader, I am ok with recycling a handful of expensive cases for a revolver or a bolt action rifle. But with a semiauto pistol, I want lots of cases, and cheap 10mm brass is an oxymoron. If you're vigilant about picking up your brass, you can easily maintain or even gain cases in 45ACP. With 10mm, you will need to buy near all your brass to start with, and you would still have to buy more every once in awhile to replace lost cases.

As a reloader, I would actually opt for the G20. But like a lot of reloaders, I'd buy a 40SW conversion barrel for it.

Or I'd take a stock G21. Afterall, it's practically the same gun as the G20. Can be loaded to 45 Super with a spring change.

I actually have a G21, and I would rather have a 40 conversion barrel for it than a 10mm conversion. But no one makes that.

 

[hentown]

Only one of the aforesaid ignorant proletarians would think that a Glock would need a relieved ejection port. Sounds "authoritative" all right, but simply sophomorically fallacious. Along the same lines, very few hands THAT WORK have a "fully supported" chamber. Which XD 10mm would YOU recommend to the OP, Einstein??

 

[powder]

No. This is a gun forum. You do not get to decide those false "facts" about Law Enforcement Officers, saying we are NOT being advocates for gun rights/sports, and that we are not shooters either. By your falsely stating that LEOs are NOT gun advocates, you ARE stating that we are against gun rights, and therefore are against the majority of those interested in this forum. Do NOT try and put your position back into my lap, turning the tables of responsibility away from yourself.

You can certainly have negative opinions about law enforcement in general, but when you try and slander us all into the anti-gun crowd, AND say we are not shooters, you are creating a destructive position of "us vs. them" which only exists in your brain. Yet, you are trying to feed others that poison.

It is unfortunate that you are extending your conversations with a handful of LE, to the entire U.S.. Does that seem like a reasonable course of logic and action? Absolutely not.

On the flip side: is there an aftermarket barrel maker for the XD line, that will convert one of their .45 units to 10mm, 400 CorBon, etc.? I've never looked at the Storm Lake offerings for Xds.

My statement about many cops not being shooting enthusiast or proactive gun advocates is simply a matter of fact more often than not admitted by LE officers. In no way was it meant to be a slur against LE in general. You're trying to make that generalization, not me.

 

[CZ57]

Only one of the aforesaid ignorant proletarians would think that a Glock would need a relieved ejection port. Sounds "authoritative" all right, but simply sophomorically fallacious. Along the same lines, very few hands THAT WORK have a "fully supported" chamber. Which XD 10mm would YOU recommend to the OP, Einstein??

Well it's not just the opinion of an "ignorant proletarian", it is in fact a recommendation by professional gunsmiths. Anyone who has viewed the excellent gunsmithing series of videos from AGI can tell you that it is a fact that they highly recommend relieving the ejection port on all Glock pistols. So why doesn't Glock relieve ejection ports? It is simply a cost saving issue in skipping one easy machining operation.

Which XD 10mm would YOU recommend to the OP, Einstein??/QUOTE]

And one of the reasons you won't find an XD/XDm or a S&W M&P chambered in 10mm is because of irresponsible reloading practices by Glock 10mm owners.

On the flip side: is there an aftermarket barrel maker for the XD line, that will convert one of their .45 units to 10mm, 400 CorBon, etc.? I've never looked at the Storm Lake offerings for Xds.

I don't know about .400 Corbon but I suspect that the lack of success of the cartridge is the reason you won't find an aftermarket barrel chambered in .400 Corbon. If there were barrels, all that would be required is a simple barrel change. Maybe if the demand were high enough someone would produce the barrel.

We already know that there is no 10mm barrel for the XD line and probably due to the reason I already posted. What you can do with a simple change of recoil springs is fire the .45 SUPER that has as much power as a 10mm or .400 Corbon and with the XD line you can fire it in a barrel with a fully supported chamber and still at a much lower operating pressure than the 10mm or the .400 Corbon. And if you want Magnum power, the XDs can be converted to the even more powerful .460 Rowland.

 

[powder]

Love that ignore list...

Here's the Storm Lake options for ya...

http://www.storm-lake.com/products/barrel#top

 

[Teachu2]

I have decided to break down and buy a Glock. While I do like the 17 and 34 I have decided on a big bore model. However I cannot decide on the 45 or the 10mm. Other than 45 ammo being cheaper, what are some major factors in choosing in between these two calibers...And recoil is not a factor either, big bore revolver guy here.

Getting back to the OP's question, the first Glock I found that I could shoot well was a 30. I immediately bought one, and it's both my primary CCW and the most fun to shoot. I added a 34 for a 9mm range gun, and then a 21 because I enjoy the 30 so much. The 21 was the least satisfying to shoot, until I changed the trigger connector and spring to a Ghost 3.5. Now I enjoy shooting all three.

If I could only have one, the 30 would be it. It's an amazing "small" .45, far more accurate than it should be, and surprisingly mild on the recoil. By the time I'm putting the 5th mag in, I'm fighting the urge to laugh - it's just a hoot to shoot. It's completely stock - I prefer my carry guns that way.

The G34 is also stock, but it's a "competition" setup in factory configuration. It has a lighter trigger, longer slide (lightened), and adjustable sights. Once I learned a grip that works for me, I shoot it very well. Ammo is cheap, and recoil is very mild.

The G21 is the full-sized version of the G30. Here in CA, all three guns use 10-rd mags, so effective capacity is the same. That destined the 21 to be a range pistol for me - the 30 is nearly as accurate, more fun, and holds as much ammo. The factory trigger was what you would expect in a service-model Glock. Simple and inexpensive to change, and I'd actually bought the Ghost kit for the 30 when I bought it - then after shooting it, decided it was perfect for a carry gun as is. The kit was sitting there, and I wasn't happy with the 21's trigger...20 minutes later, it was all good!

If choosing 21 vs 20, I'd go 21. You can always get a conversion barrel and a couple mags and have both. Can't do that with the 20.

 

[ljnowell]

CZ, why are you still here trolling the OPs thread? You try to make points that no one cares about, that matter nothing to the conversation. You are simply here pushing your XD agenda. Why dont you wait for a thread about which XD should I buy, and go put your posts there?

 

[BsChoy]

I say 21sf and if you start reloading just buy a conversion for 10mm...

 

[sargents1]

I have decided to break down and buy a Glock. While I do like the 17 and 34 I have decided on a big bore model. However I cannot decide on the 45 or the 10mm. Other than 45 ammo being cheaper, what are some major factors in choosing in between these two calibers...And recoil is not a factor either, big bore revolver guy here.

That is a tough one.

G20 Pluses:
- Can shoot full power 10mm. More power is More Gooderer.
- An inexpensive aftermarket barrel will drop right in and convert to .40S&W, and you can utilize your regular 10mm magazines with .40S&W.

G20 Minuses:
- I dont think you can get a .45 conversion barrel for the G20, so if you want another caliber, you are stuck with going to .40cal.

G21 Pluses:
- Its a .45!
- Buy an aftermarket conversion barrel and you can shoot 10mm!
- You might be able to get a .40 cal conversion barrel for a G21 - I am not sure so you would want to check.
G21 Minuses:
- If you want to shoot 10mm, you will need both an aftermarket barrel and new magazines. that will cost you a little more.

I went with the G20SF and I am very pleased with it. But, I reload (on a progressive press) so ammo costs are pretty low for me. I still havent gotten around to buying a .40cal conversion barrel, but it is on my list.

You wont go wrong with either one, but I would recommend the G20 with the 10-40 Conversion barrel. .40cal ammo is cheaper than .45 and is just as available.

 

[Ex]

Go with the G20. Can shoot .40 for cheap and effective SD with a barrel and mag swap, and 10mm for big with 2nd party barrel for supported chamber WILD stuff.

I was shooting 180 Swampfox (God rest his soul) 180 grn rounds at 1410 fps. Part your hair that one would.

AND if you decide to reload, the bullet is the same for .40 and 10mm!!!!!!