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First Glock - Can't shoot it worth a darn

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Dudemeister, Jul 1, 2019.

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  1. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    After resisting the temptation to buy a Glock for more than 30 years, I caved in and bought a G19 3rd gen a month or so ago.

    Believe it or not the impetus was not the pistol, rather I was intrigued by the NCStart VISM folding red Dot. And since Glock is one of the few guns that has slides designed to take a recessed optic, I bought the gun, then promptly bought an aftermarket slide with the RMR cut.

    The aftermarket slide is made by , with the cut and the side cut windows. It looks really well made, and it has a nice DLC finish. I also bought a set of gen Glock internals to finish it. this way I can switch between the original and this by just transferring the barrel and spring.

    TL Slide.jpg
    So this past weekend I took it to the range, and after having some issues with the optic, I put back the original slide and tried to use it with the iron sights.

    I really can't shoot this thing. I'm sure that it not the gun, it the gunner, but I've never been this bad. First of all, it shoots low left. I know that means I'm jerking the trigger, but I don't think I am, I was being very conscious about it and trying to gently squeeze it. Also when I mean it shoot low and left, it's like 6" left and 6" low at 15 yards. Since there's no adjustment with these sights (other than windage), I was doing some Kentucky windage adjustments and aiming at the upper right hand of the target. Even then, only about 1/2 of my shots were grouping, the rest were all over the place.

    So the question: Is there some special grip, or technique that Glock shooters use to get some accuracy with these things?
     
    Jinx0760 likes this.
  2. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger member

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    Trying to diagnose your poor fundamental skills at shooting a pistol by posting instructions online has a roughly 0% chance of working. So my advice is to sign up for a class on basic pistol marksmanship, and then actually listen to the instructor and stop doing whatever it is you are currently doing to the trigger. I suspect you’re trying to make the pistol discharge immediately when you think your sight picture is where you want it. This is a road to failure, but convincing people of it with internet posts never works.

    So get yourself to a class, I think it will help you a lot to get done hands on experience from a qualified individual who can help diagnose your issues.

    Good luck with your optic, hope that slide will accept other red dot sights.
     
  3. Spade5

    Spade5 Member

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    Have someone else shoot the pistol and/or shoot it with the other hand.
     
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  4. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    No. Same techniques that are used for any other pistol.
    Exactly. 30 years of shooting experience means nothing (actually it's worse than nothing) if it was 30 years of self induced bad habit development.
     
  5. drband

    drband Member

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    Maybe you don't need a class... just get an experienced shooter or range officer to watch you shoot. I bet they could diagnose your issue within a dozen shots. Then, you'll have to decide if you can remedy your issues(s) or if you need some 1-on-1 instruction or a class. (1-on-1 will generally yield better results)

    Pistol shooting technique is relatively easy, but it's NOT instinctive!
     
    Corpral_Agarn, 460Shooter and FL-NC like this.
  6. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    That probably depends a lot on if the "experienced shooter or range officer" has the same sort of "experience" that the OP does. ;)
     
  7. PzGren

    PzGren Member

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    I used to be a shooting instructor in several pistol clubs. When new shooters were introduced to the sport, I often heard complaints that the gun wasn't sighted in properly and went through a simple elimination of problems with them by isolating possible mistakes.

    For the OP I would recommend to start with the pistol rested solidly on sandbags.
     
  8. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    One reason for shooting to the left is holding the gun to tight with your shooting hand.
    The Glock trigger is a little different and some dry fire time may help.
     
  9. Hokie_PhD

    Hokie_PhD Member

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    I’m also wondering if OP is thinking too much.

    If he shoots his other guns fine, he may be thinking too much. I know that since I started relaxing more it doesn’t cause me to mess up my fundamentals. When I was tense, any little thing got multiplied.

    He may be tense because it’s a new gun and it feels a bit different.

    Maybe he should take another gun that he shoots well with him on the next range trip. Shoot that for a bit and see how he does. If all is good, then switch to the Glock. He should try to relax, and only make the adjustment for the different grip angle. Then see.
     
    Skgreen and Monac like this.
  10. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    If you're old enough to have resisted Glocks for 30 years it'll take time. In 1994 our local county PD issued Glocks to their officers. Prior to that they had to purchase their own guns and could carry anything they could qualify with. A friend of mine, now retired, was the head of our SWAT team and firearms training officer. Before issuing the Glocks he had to be trained in order to train others.

    He was by far the best shot on the PD at the time but struggled with the new Glocks. During the training and transition period many of the rookies were shooting better with the Glocks than him. But he stayed with it, mastered it within a few months was once again out shooting everyone else. He carried either a BHP or 1911 prior to the change to Glocks but told me shortly before he retired in 2014 that he'd never carry anything but a Glock anymore

    Dry fire is your friend. One mistake made is treating the trigger like a DOA revolver. There is a small amount of takeup, then you have a crisp 5-6 lb trigger pull. Realistically about the same pull weight as a typical factory 1911. After the shot just release the trigger enough to reset then repeat for the next shot. Those who completely release the trigger between shots or try to work it like a DOA revolver have more trouble.
     
  11. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    I really like your G19/rmr project. I certainly shoot my MKll best with a red dot, and really like my reflex sight on the AR pistol. I think you are going to really like that setup once you work the bugs out.
    Dont make any rash decisions until you have put a minimum of 500 rounds through it. This is my rule of thumb for any gun.
    I considered myself a pretty decent pistol shot until I got my first snub revolver......wow, I couldnt hit the paper.
     
    Skgreen and entropy like this.
  12. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    Have you EVER shot any Glock BEFORE you bought one?

    Align the sights. Squeeze the trigger.

    It is the same thing with EVERY GUN. There are no special Glock pills, Colt pills or Ruger hand shakes.


    Align the sights. Squeeze the trigger.
     
    Mullo98 likes this.
  13. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    I recommend this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and a lot of dry fire practice. There's nothing special about shooting a Glock, but their trigger can take some getting used to. If you can't pull the trigger without moving the gun around, you'll never hit where you want really.

    Out of curiosity OP, do you have large hands? Low left occurs for me sometimes if I'm not keeping my finger where it aught to be. Having large hands can make this worse in my experience and focus on technique is the only fix.

    That being said, there's plenty of red dot ready guns out there to choose from. If after a few more range sessions you aren't improving, I'd probably trade it towards a gun that suits you better.
     
    Armored farmer likes this.
  14. drband

    drband Member

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    Dry fire is your friend. I believe Rob Leatham says something to the effect that the most important part of pistol shooting is make the sights absolutely motionless during the trigger pull. If you can do that during dry fire and then follow with doing it in live fire, you will have cured the problem. ;)
    However, grip and trigger technique are involved.
    But the overriding concept is to shoot with motionless sights during the trigger pull.

    As a newbie several years ago, I experienced the same low/left issue as the OP. I mentioned my experience to my then BIL and he just laughed at me! It happens to all of us. Once I learned good pistol technique the problem disappeared. Really.

    When I’m tired during a long range session I really have to concentrate on fundamentals to prevent the low/left problem from reoccurring.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  15. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Exactamundo.
     
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  16. entropy

    entropy Member

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    I have the exact opposite problem you do. I am far from enamored with them, but can shoot them very well.
     
  17. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    First time I shot a Glock in the 80s I didn't like it and couldn't shoot it worth a darn. I figured out what my problem was. I was shooting it like a double action. I started treating the trigger like a heavy single action and it worked fine. A Glock 19 is the best all around 9mm IMO.
     
  18. Mullo98

    Mullo98 Member

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    Just keep shooting it. Practice makes perfect...
     
  19. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    A contrarian voice:

    If you are putting all the shots way low and left (and assuming you are right handed), there is a 95+% chance that you are engaging in a pre-ignition push. Nothing to do with trigger control, nothing that can be solved purely in dry fire.

    The most likely explanation is that the Glock is unfamiliar to you, and its behavior in recoil has triggered a subconscious reaction. Your subconscious doesn't "trust" the gun. You are either experiencing a brain-stem-driving flinch (complete with blink) and/or are aggressively shoving the gun around trying to deal with recoil/make the gun behave like the guns you are used to.

    The real tell-tale would be to watch what happens in dry-fire - are you able to keep the sights reasonably still through a full trigger pull/press? If so, then your trigger control is fine... it's the other inputs you are making in anticipation of recoil that is causing the problem.

    Often, "slowing down" or "focusing on the trigger" will make these problems worse, not better. And generally dry-fire won't help, either, since the issue is recoil anticipation and there's none involved during dry-fire.

    This may not be what's happening, but I think it's more likely than not. If you are able to shoot other service-caliber handguns without a big pre-ignition push, then the most important thing is to build the same level of "trust" that you have in those guns in terms of educated your lizard brain that the gun is not going to blow up or harm you when it goes off. The best way to do that, IMO, is to go to the range and don't even put up a target. Fire at the backstop. Fire with all your attention on trying to see the gun go off - try to see the muzzle flash, try to see the brass eject, try to see the front sight lift in recoil. You may have to rip some shots rapid-fire if the blink reflex/impulse is fighting you hard.
     
    I6turbo, <*(((><, sigarms228 and 5 others like this.
  20. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    good post.

    Low left is the shooter 80-99% of the time.

    I usually tell people a few things:
    (assuming a proper support hand grip) Keep your support hand tight with consistent pressure. this will be the vice the gun sits in.

    Get your trigger finger figured out. Just enough pressure on the trigger to break the shot. Don't go from 0-100 with your finger.
    Pull though the wall in the trigger.
     
  21. Bill Raby

    Bill Raby Member

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    Practice more.
     
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  22. IdaD

    IdaD Member

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    Load one round, drop the mag and fire twice. The bad habits tend to appear on that second shot.
     
  23. George P

    George P member

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    I am with the OP; I find the Gen 3 with the finger grooves very awkward to find a good grip to shoot well - and this is taking my time, not reacting to an imminent threat. One of the reasons mine will be going bye-bye now (SIG P365 works a lot better - for ME)
     
  24. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    Yep.

    Point, and then stretch, your thumb at the target... hard.

    Rearward pressure on your middle and ring fingers is only to facilitate driving your thumb forward.

    This drives the web of the hand into, and the meat of the thumb around, the grip, locking it in place.

    It will also isolate the trigger finger so that your press will be smooth.




    GR
     
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  25. Dudemeister

    Dudemeister Member

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    Thanks for all the posts.

    First of, yes, I'm old enough to have had some experience with different guns, and resist the Glock allure for 30 years. I own a fairly decent number of guns, and in general prefer shooting either my 1911's, my 38/357 or 45LC revolvers or my Ruger & Buckmark .22s. The Glock is not my first plastic gun, I also own an MP45 and P99AS.

    I'm not a marksman by any stretch of the imagination, but at 15 yards I can put all my rounds in a 5" diameter Shoot-n-See. At 25 yards I can do the same with my .22s.

    So I do understand that it's not the gun's fault, but I had to start questioning why I was doing so poorly with this. The only other gun that required some 'learning" for me was the Walther P99, but even that was not as random as this, although I must admit that when I learned to shoot that one I was 15 years younger.

    Anyway, I think that @ATLDave probably hit the nail on the head, but I'm sure that the weird trigger this thing has is also a contributing factor, so I'll be doing some dry firing of this thing until I'm no longer conscious of it.

    Speaking of repeated dry fire, this is not one of those that the firing pin snap off, is it?
     
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