First Loads - Am I gonna blow my face off?

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Welcome and thanks for asking our advice.

Edit: (After reading OCD1's post #33.) Err on the sie of caution. Don't shoot them. My post below is rather cavalier and bad advice for a new reloader.

May I be kindly snarky? Shoot them late in the day, around dusk and enjoy the show. Take video and post on Youtube and here.

Seriously, I would shoot the 25 you have loaded. Pulling bullets is a pain and Blue Dot WAS recommended for 125 grain loadings. Just because the powder manufacturer has changed their mind (unless they discovered a safety problem) is not sufficient reason for me to pull the plug on that load. Because it is Blue Dot's manufacturer who has changed recommendations, I give their advisory more weight, but it the reason is excessive muzzle flash and NOT dangerous pressures or unreliable ignition or other such risks to safety, I would just put on my eye and ear protection, make sure I am holding at arm's length and shoot'em up.

My 1979 Speer manual lists Blue Dot up to 15.8 grains for the 125 grain bullet. My 1997 edition of Modern Reloading lists Blue Dot up to 14.5 grains under the same bullet. If Blue Dot's maker's recommendation against use is based on muzzle flash, shooters have been putting up with (accepting) flash for a long time. I don't think 25 more rounds is going to hurt anything.

After I wrote the above, I read the letter that Alliant put out.
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18318&stc=1&d=1217100233

I think I would call the guy named in the letter at that phone number 540-839-8503 ([email protected]) and ask, specifically what the problem is and how is it that 30 years of using B.D. in .357 Magnum with bullet weights as low as 110 grains did not produce a safety problem before. If I could not get a straight, understandable and credible answer, I would consider avoiding Alliant powders in the future. But Alliant is a respected name, and I expect you will get a satisfactory answer. Please share with us when you do.

A picture of a spectacular ball of flame that 10 years from now, you can point to and say "Yep, that was my first handload." would be priceless.

About your next powder purchase:

Unique is a very versatile powder, but sooty. 2400 is good for 357. If you want light loads, Bullseye is pretty good and you get a lot of rounds out of a pound. But being very energy-dense, you have to be extra careful against a double-charge. It is also hard to see if you have left a case uncharged, which can be worse. Trail Boss is a powder that is good for new handloaders because it is easy to see that you have charged the case one time and only one time. It takes up a lot of volume for its weight.

In short. Call Alliant. Shoot the Blue Dot. 30+ years of experience says you are not going to blow yourself up. Switch to a "reduced flash" powder if you don't want the muzzle flash.

Lost Sheep
 
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Thanks for all the replies. I AM very new to this, but am doing my best to be careful and safe. I have a bullet puller, so just to be on the safe side I am gonna use the blue dot another time and hunt around Seattle for one of the more suitable powders you all have suggested.
 
On the other hand

That letter warning against using Blue Dot in anything 125 grains and lighter was dated 2008.

Alliant's web site lists loads for 110 grain bullets, 140 grain bullets and heavier.

There is something contradictory.

I commend your caution. If it were me, I would wait to pull the bullets and call Alliant and request an explanation and their recommendation.

I hate it when things don't make sense. It shakes my faith in the loading manuals and in the powder manufacturers.

Lost Sheep
 
There is something contradictory.

I'm not sure that its all that contradictory to be honest, note that there are still no 125gr load data on the alliant website. 110 and 140, but no 125.

I don't think that I would be afraid to load 125s with it, if it were a powder that I cared to use anyway. I know that I would not walk the line of max loads with it, as that is where its supposed to get peaky and inconsistent. Either way, if it were me I would just shelf it and get some 2400. Now thats a 357 mag powder!
 
I was at the range today practicing with some full house .357 mag., and they do indeed have the potential to burn anything within close proximity.
I like to shoot the 125 gr. XTP's with 20.0 grains of H110/296 and a CCI-550 to light it. My carry round is a 158 gr. Gold Dot with 16.7 grs. of H110/296 and that will still light the place up.
When you've tested your B.D. loads and feel more confident, I suggest you give H110/296 a try for some true and exciting magnum power house loads. They'll knock your socks off!
 
Why would it it be recommended to a new Reloader to continue to use the load when the Powder Manufacture recommends not to, based on high pressure, it has nothing to do with "flash"??

Direct from their website.

"Alliant Powder, we take safety seriously. That’s why we periodically test our products in different situations to be sure our use recommendations stay current. Check here for any safety notes or recall information. Stay safe and keep accurate.

Alliant Powder periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that our recommended recipes have not changed over time.

During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

* Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
* Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).

Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter."
 
I'm not sure that its all that contradictory to be honest, note that there are still no 125gr load data on the alliant website. 110 and 140, but no 125.
truncated for brevity)
What I find contradictory is that Alliant said in 2008 to avoid the 125 grain bullet, but that heavier ones are OK. Today, their web site says 110 grain loads are ok and 140 and heavier are OK. How is it that 125 grain bullets dip into an unsafe performance envelope? Where does that leave a 118 grain bullet or 132 grains?

I realize that extrapolation with interior ballistics is not necessarily linear, but a curve that reverses seems as if it might be a candidate to be called contradictory and makes me nervous.

I hope that explains my reasoning.

Regards,

Lost Sheep
 
I hope that explains my reasoning.

Regards,

Lost Sheep

I understand your reasoning, I am just pointing out that there are still no 125 gr loads listed via alliant. Perhaps they did testing with 110gr loads and did not encounter any spikes? I don't guess we will ever know that though, so all we can do is guess.
 
Believe your manual first and take the forum "experts" with a grain of salt. I never use any load data that I cannot confirm/check against data in one of my manuals.
 
No comment on the Blue Dot issue since I don't use it. In regards to future loads though, I personally have had the best results with 158 gr bullets, although I am in the process of coming up with some decent loads for the 180 gr bullets. As for future powder purchases, I had excellent results with w-231/HP-38 and Tite Group for the mild loads. For the middle loads, the True Blue and Universal Clays worked very well. I like the Universal quite a bit better than Unique, although they have similar applications. For the hotter loads, I like W-296/H-110 and 2400 pretty well, but I have had outstanding results with AA #9. There are many possibilities that work well. I mention a few options for each range of power just because you can't always find what you want on a given day.
 
2400

I know it's difficult to get powder in your area, but if you are looking for a good Magnum powder, 2400 is a great powder that allows you to experience the magnum experience. I loaded a few up last night, directly out of the Sierra book that suggested 14 gr. with a 158g JHP projectile. What a great load!! I feel ya on the concern of having the gun blow up in your hand at the range for the first time. I felt the same way about my loads! I made up some 45 ACP, 9MM, .40 cal and .308 rifle loads my first time and I'll tell ya what. It doesn't matter what the guys on the forum say...even if you DID follow the exact recipe and directions to the tee...you still have that hidden fear that something ain't gonna go right at the range. I'm sitting behind my .308 with 4 rounds loaded in the magazine...and you know what? It went bang...and the bullet hit paper! I was thrilled to death! I had my typical problems...such as crimping properly. My 45's would not feed...my .357's wouldn't go all the way into the cylinder...all because of improper crimping. Heck...I couldn't blow my face off cuz' the round would not load! :what: Just read the books...go light at first and then when you get experienced and knowledgable about pressure values, you can then venture out. I'm new as well into reloading..but I'm learning every day!

By the way...the bullet puller is the best tool you can have and the most frustrating as well! :banghead: Good luck and have a blast!!! I didn't mean that literally!!
 
Believe your manual first and take the forum "experts" with a grain of salt. I never use any load data that I cannot confirm/check against data in one of my manuals.

There are a few of "the forum "experts"" on this site & a few others that I give higher regard to what they say then most of the manuals. I keep a manual around for specs of brass & a reference point for most powders when working up a load.

918

While just because Clark would shoot it or Clark loaded it doesn't mean i would shoot it but he seems to have a wealth of knowledge.
 
Well, I slept on it and made the decision to take the rounds I had loaded to the range and fire them from my GP100 and, after all the build-up, they were a pure pleasure to shoot. Very mild recoil compared to the Remington 125gr JSP that I have been shooting lately. Also, they were much, much less sooty than the Remington rounds. Primers had nice hammer strikes and no obvious problems (to my untrained eye) with the brass after firing.

On they way home I stopped at a gun shop that was recommended to me by a friend and picked up some Unique and 2400 and will give those a try for the near future. All in all, a successful day at the range and I still have a face!
 
Dave, I like 16.2gr of 2400 under a 125gr JHP. I have loaded my way to 17gr, but it was too much, imo. I also load the 158gr MBC SWC over 14.5gr of 2400. This is one of the most popular loadings ever for that combo, any use it, and for good reason.
 
Excellent. Yep, a nice midrange load power wise, so recoil would be mild.

A Unique load approximately equivalent to that one (11.6 BD) would be around 8.0 Grs of Unique. I like 7.8 Grs of Unique with a 125 Gr bullet. It gives me around 1275 FPS (6" barrel), is pleasant to shoot even in small guns, very clean, and very accurate.

Can't help with 2400.
 
I use a Hornady manual for the loading data ... seventh edition I believe. It has never made any of my guns explode, squib or made me die.
Ultimately I'm pretty darned sure if your manual is at all up to date and you're not going beyond the published envelope you have something to worry about. As for powder selection I use the same powder and primer I started with. HS-6 and CCI primers. Why? Because it works and none of my guns have exploded.

When reloading I've found there is only so much "surety" you can get. But that's about the same as factory ammo, IMNSHO. Hells, shooting guns isn't inherently safe! I think you're just nervous because you're rather acutely aware of the danger at this point.
 
I have used load data & @ 0.2gr over the min it popped the primers. The book isn't the gospel. It needs some editing from time to time.
 
Late to the party again but I see you already got a lot of good advice. I don't use a 125gr bullet in the .357 Magnum much. I rarely load anything lighter than a 140gr bullet. If I were to load a 125gr bullet I would use HS-6, 2400 or W296/H110. (depending upon what I was looking to achieve)
 
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I used some Blue dot and got some VERY ERRATIC happenings. Couple bangs then some booms, few later I got some very light charges. Wondered what the heck was going on so I took the rest apart and checked them but they were all the same charge. 2 days later I seen the recall ad in Rifle magazine and looked into it......OOOHHHHHH!!!!! that's what's wrong.
Felt so much better.


2 great powders for 357 are 2400 and Bullseye. One for fun and the other for serious work.
 
Glad it worked out for the OP.

I have loaded some 357 with Blue Dot in the past, but not a big fan of that combination. My experiences were not as dramatic as jgiehl's, but I have noticed some variation with BD.

Personally, I would have shot them in a Ruger. If I had one in 357 mag. :-(
 
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