First loads for my 9mm, puckered primers

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Bobaloo22, Jun 27, 2022.

  1. Bobaloo22

    Bobaloo22 Member

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    upload_2022-6-27_7-58-41.jpeg
    These types of puckers were consistant with four different loads (Two bullet types and Bullseye and Silhouette powders) that were not anywhere near max. This has me very nervous as I was extremely careful and checked multiple data before loading. One thing but not sure if it matters these are CCI 500s that are old, they have the tan sleeve. Thank you for any guidance.
     
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  2. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    I'm not seeing anything wrong. I do see some indications of low pressure where the primer cup did not get moved back against the breach face.

    What was your load detail.
     
  3. drband

    drband Member

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    This^^^^
     
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  4. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    Not be sure what puckered means, but you could try orange juice instead of lime!

    Those are showing lower than usual pressure, so keep working up if you'd like and there's room in the data.
     
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  5. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    The pucker is likely due to your gun's breechface. What gun are you shooting?
     
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  6. Bobaloo22

    Bobaloo22 Member

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    It's a Beretta PX4 Storm, I was loading on the low side of charges. I'm new at this so I want to be extra, extra careful. The pucker is around the primer where it was struck, it's consistent for all four loads so I was worried.
     
  7. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Yup. It's not the ammo, it's the gun.

    That's what they look like when they're fired from a Beretta 92. It might be the same with their PX4 storm guns, too. Check your breechface. It probably has a slightly concave dish around the firing pin hole.

    Plus, do a goggle search for beretta dimple primers and you'll see what i'm referring to.

    Glocks have a signature 'pucker' around their firing pin hit, too. Only theirs is rectangular.
     
  8. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Right, Beretta firing pin holes are countersunk so the case rim sliding up the breech face from the magazine cannot snag on a sharp edge.
     
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  9. higgite

    higgite Member

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    Do you have any factory ammo to compare to?
     
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  10. AK Hunter

    AK Hunter Member

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    Did you do a ladder test from low to high when working up you load?
    Consistency can be a good thing.
     
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  11. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
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  12. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Pull the slide back and snap a picture of your breechface.

    Like this,

    AC5B2F8C-680A-4916-93B1-CF469BABFBC4.jpeg

    Sometimes a look at it explains odd looking primers.

    BA65D0D2-D136-470B-97CF-D54618C19910.jpeg
     
  13. Bobaloo22

    Bobaloo22 Member

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    I'm going to shoot some factory ammo again as soon as I can to compare. And yes this was my ladder test rounds, I started low up to mid range. Here's a pic of the breech face. IMG_1501.jpg
     
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  14. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    There is nothing wrong with those primers. Absolutely normal for low pressure loads.
     
  15. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Yup. That's it. The face is dished out slightly around the firing pin hole.
     
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  16. Bobaloo22

    Bobaloo22 Member

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    That's what I thought too. Thank you very much! I never heard about this issue with Berettas and never paid attention to the cases because I didn't reload.
     
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  17. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    In this "case":) it seems to be the gun and breech face but when you have any issues it is good to post what exact powder charge, COL and firearm. Eliminates folks guessing on what may be the problem
     
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  18. mdi

    mdi Member

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    Primers are not a good indication of pressures. When a "normal" pressure round is fired the case sets back against the breech/bolt face and the primer is reseated, when a load is to light this leaves "puckered", slightly protruding primers. Another indication of too light loads is the soot on the side of the cases, as in the ones in the pic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  19. Bobaloo22

    Bobaloo22 Member

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    You're right, I started at the very low end as you saw. I guess I had a little fear of too hot a load but I thought this "ladder" was best. I was so nervous shooting these, I prayed and had my phone handy.
     
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  20. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

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    I've told this story before, but...

    Back in the late 80s, when I loaded my very first rounds. I held the pistol in my left hand (I'm a righty), turned my head around so my eyes wouldn't get exploded, and held a short piece of board betwixt my face and the gun.

    Rounds fired off without a hitch.

    You gotta remember; there was very little info available back then. AlGore had not yet invented the internet, and the old grouches at the LGS (which wasn't called that then) had no time for a long-haired young man who rode up on a Harley.
     
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  21. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    There is your answer. Normal, for that pistol.
     
  22. ParallelCode

    ParallelCode Member

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    I was nervous the first time I shot my own ammo as well. 223 with a Hornady 55gr and Varget. No issues at all, but my heart sure was racing before that first shot!
     
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  23. gifbohane

    gifbohane Member

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    I donned a welding helmet, a leather glove, placed my entire body under the shooting table, and fired with my left hand (I am righty)
     
  24. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    It is very hard to interpret primers on auto mechanisms, or even manually indexing firearms. If the whole primer has backed out, it might be due to low case pressures and high friction between the case and chamber. Sometimes primers appear flat because of high case to chamber friction. The case gets fixed, the primer backs out, then as pressures rise, case sidewalls stretch so the case head stops at the breech face. This stuffs the primer back in the pocket, but the primer is mushroomed for being out of the pocket, and when it gets stuffed back in, it appears flat. This is why I do load development with lubricated cases, to keep the primer in the case, and to note when the primer actually flattens due to increased pressures.

    An aggravating factor is large firing pin holes. Remington used to drill their M700 firing pin holes oversize so the primer would cup around the firing pin. Remington claimed it provided better gas sealing. This practice may be followed by other manufacturers. It sure cause the owner of that M700 concern. It is just another example of how hard it is to judge pressures by primer appearances, it is more than hit or miss.

    Absolute positive indications of over pressure are blown primers, leaking primers and pierced primers. When these are encountered it can be certain the powder charge was overmax well before the primers blew. With a revolver, when you have to beat the extractor star open, that's a clue pressures are too high. Autopistols, and for that matter semi auto rifles, the mechanism unlocks itself, so you don't get the feel of sticky extraction. I look for signs of over acceleration of the mechanism. Such as malfunctions that occur when breech pressures are too high at unlock, such as bolt over rides, or the mechanism being slammed too hard, and ripped rims! I know hard recoil and too fast of slide operation are subjective, but, if you get used to your pistol, you will notice this, along with the distance a shell is ejected. The faster the slide moves, the further the shell gets tossed.

    Some mechanisms open and eject faster than human perception. A bud has a H&K P7, a gas delayed action blowback pistol. That pistol also has a fluted chamber to break the friction between case and chamber.

    z2Qej31.jpg

    I watched him shoot and the slide opened and closed faster than human perception. For a mechanism like that, I would simply find the lightest load that would function the thing, and then go a half a grain above that, till the pistol always cycled, depending on the weather. I was told by two owners of these things, that 9mm rounds that functioned their Beretta's did not have enough power to function their P7's. Sometimes you have to load for the pistol.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
  25. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I completely agree. Bump the charge weights up until you find the most accurate charge and call it good. 9
     
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