Flame suit on: 22LR semi-auto for home defense.

[Balrog]

So generally the thought is that 38 Special or 380 ACP is the absolute minimum for defense. I get that and understand why.

However, some shooters do not shoot these calibers well, especially in the firearms most typically associated with them. Small frame revolvers in 38 Special are notoriously difficult for shooters with limited experience to shoot well, and the recoil even from 38 Special is difficult for shooters with little experience to shoot well. Same is true for small frame semi-autos.

I would propose that a Ruger or Browning semi auto 22 LR might be as good a choice as any for home defense for people with limited shooting experience, are recoil sensitive, and do not have hours (or the interest) in significant training. These pistols are relatively accurate (I would say more so than most small frame revolvers and autos), controls are easy to manipulate, recoil is essentially nothing, and in my experience are reliable. The 10 round magazine has twice the capacity of a J frame, and nearly twice as much as most small semi autos in 380 or 9mm.

The 22 LR is no doubt a poor stopper, but I would rather see a few hits on a target with a 22 than five misses with a J frame.

 

[chicharrones]

I've thought of that, too. But then I think about a 4" to 6" barreled revolver in .22 WMR. Low recoil, but a bit more umph and penetration with the available jacketed bullets.

I say this because when I get to the point I can't handle recoil, I'm probably going to move to a .22 WMR gun of some sort with enough barrel to take advantage of the cartridge. Either that or I'll just put low recoil 148 grain wadcutters of .38 Special into a revolver I already have.

 

[wally]

Three most important things in handgun effectiveness are bullet placement, placement, and penetration.

The .22lr can help a lot with the placement issue, but is generally marginal in penetration when fired from a handgun.

I'd advise something larger if at all possible, but a .22lr pistol sure beats a pointed object. Most defensive firearms use ends without a shot being fired, but its not something I'd advise counting on and choosing a .22lr for defense.

You can think of your 10-shot .22lr pistol as a single shot shotgun that fires serially -- a 10 pellet load with tad smaller than #4 buckshot

 

[chicharrones]

Arrrgh. My mistake speaking of revolvers in the auto loader section.

From my hands on time with my friend's Keltec PMR30, I'd like something like that when the time comes.

 

[ironworkerwill]

There has been a lot of folks kill'd with a .22lr, however there's been a good many wounded by it too.

I'd rather have a .22 I could hit with than a 44mag that I couldn't.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I explored this option, when thinking of a good pistol for my mom. I have Ruger standard that I got her to practice with, and she liked it well enough. It was easy for her to manipulate, and her accuracy wasn't too bad.
But then the inevitable happened....a malfunction. (Winchester failed to fire...a genuine dud)
At that point, it was useless to her, as I couldn't get her to practice clearing the thing
And then, her confidence with it plummeted.

IMO, 22LR simply can't be as reliable as centerfire.
And that means, a person who goes that route should be willing to put in some time drilling on how to clear malfunctions.

my mom won't, so she stuck with her detective special. She does pretty well with it. But, I bring an m1 carbine every time to her house and get her to practice with it. It's growing on her.

 

[Balrog]

I've thought of that, too. But then I think about a 4" to 6" barreled revolver in .22 WMR. Low recoil, but a bit more umph and penetration with the available jacketed bullets.

I say this because when I get to the point I can't handle recoil, I'm probably going to move to a .22 WMR gun of some sort with enough barrel to take advantage of the cartridge. Either that or I'll just put low recoil 148 grain wadcutters of .38 Special into a revolver I already have.

The only reason I would not consider that option is that my mother has arthritis, and has a hard time with the heavy DA pull on a revolver, and also has trouble thumb cocking the hammer. If she did thumb cock the hammer, I don't think she could safely drop the hammer without discharging it if she ended up not needing to shoot it.

 

[DPris]

If you HAVE to go .22LR, an auto is not the best choice.

Rimfire ammo can be prone to misfires & misfeeds, even in a quality pistol.
I'd suggest, if you have to drop that low, a revolver, for its simplicity & an immediate followup round in case of a misfire.
Denis

 

[Mizar]

Why stop at .22 LR? It has a negligible recoil, but it's still a recoil. It is loud - well, not as loud as .38 Spl., but still... Why don't just use some CO2 BB gun? I mean, one can use a 4" S&W model 10, loaded with wad-cutters for home defense if he (she) is recoil sensitive, or some old school all metal .380 pistol like Beretta 84, but I guess that this is just a lame argument coming from my side...

 

[MedWheeler]

This is a thread on use of the .22 caliber for defense, not one on how to manage using something else, so (unlike the poster above), I'll stick to that.

The .22 certainly has its place in the collection of anecdotes of self-defense gun uses. I'll never disparage anyone who carries or stows a .22 caliber weapon for defense, no matter what their reason. But the points regarding autoloaders (added complexity and possibility of jams) and revolvers (heavy triggers) for those who might be "forced down" to the caliber for health or dexterity reason are certainly valid. It's a discussion that has no end.

Perhaps some of those considering these weapons for home defense could also consider a .22 caliber rifle as a possibility. The Mossberg 702 is a good starting point, a light, easily-handled and affordable ten-rounder that quite impressed me when I got one. Other options abound as well, from Ruger, Savage, and Marlin.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Would your mom consider a rifle? Be it in 22LR or otherwise?

Like I mentioned the difficulties with my mom....her hands are arthritic and rather weak. The colt detective special was the only revolver we have available that has a DA pull she can manage. All my Rugers were a no-go.

I keep urging her towards a rifle (30 carbine) because hand strength really becomes a non issue. Charging is a piece of cake, single action triggers are a cinch, and mag changes are easy (not to mention a whole lot of capacity) And I think aiming is generally more intuitive for anybody with a rifle/carbine, vs a handgun.

One thing my mind keeps coming back to, as well:

A burglar is looking in the window and sees a little old lady arm herself with a snubnose revolver. He may still think she could be overcome with little risk.
If he sees her arm herself with a rifle, he may be more hesitant. (I know I would)

Just my thoughts on it

 

[chicharrones]

Would your mom consider a rifle?

Like I mentioned the difficulties with my mom....her hands are arthritic and rather weak.

I keep urging her towards a rifle (30 carbine) because hand strength really becomes a non issue. Charging is a piece of cake, single action triggers are a cinch, and mag changes are easy (not to mention a whole lot of capacity) And I think aiming is generally more intuitive for anybody with a rifle/carbine, vs a handgun.

Hard to limp wrist an auto loading rifle compared to an auto loading pistol as well.

 

[PO2Hammer]

You can do all the reasoning you want ahead of time, but when that guy is coming at you, are you going to feel confident when you reach for that rimfire?
No.
Even granny is going to wish she had a centerfire.

 

[grampajack]

Once again, there's something pathological going on with .22lr on this forum. It's like people are trying to find any and all excuse to do something they know is a bad idea, and, because they do know it's a bad idea, they're looking for someone to help them rationalize it.

I totally get that not everyone can handle the recoil from a snubnose .38 or a micro .380, but there are soooo many other options, especially when we're talking about home defense. How about a full size .357 magnum with light .38 loads???

Or a full size 9mm 1911. Can't pull back the slide? Well, first of all, reloads in a self defense shooting are almost unheard of, but if you're really worried about it get a slide pull device.

And why are we limited to a pistol? We've got pump action .410 shotguns (loaded with slugs of course), pistol caliber carbines, and, wait for it, AR15s...which have almost zero recoil and many that come in under 6 lbs!

I'm just at a complete loss here. A .22 pistol is only a good idea if you ignore literally every other valid option.

 

[Mizar]

I do remember a .22LR SD story that happened to a local guy some years ago - he was shooting at some ladle with a rimfire pistol... Yes, a kitchen ladle. Long story short, the ladle won - the bullet ricocheted on the inside curve and hit the guy in the abdomen, sending him right to the ER. So, ladle - 1, .22LR guy - 0. And that is a true story.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I don't ever feel tempted to use a .22lr handgun for home or self defense, although it's arguably better than a pointed stick.

I would give more serious consideration to .22 magnum if I didn't have my usual home defense gun handy. I bought a Kel-tec PMR-30 for my wife -- who wanted a gun she could use if I was away, but had difficulties with most everything she tried. She fires the PMR-30 pretty well and doesn't find it intimidating.

The PMR-30, which holds up to 30 rounds in the mag, fires the .22 WMR. Mine has been very reliable, and that seems to be the rule NOT the exception for this K-T product. (There were some problems when the gun ws first introduced, which led to a different barrel design.) The gun is very loud and others can see a very big ring of fire when shooting .22 WMR rounds designed for handguns (rather than long guns.) Happily, it shoots like a LASER. Very accurate. No recoil. A light weapon, etc.

Most importantly, the test results I've seen of Hornady Critical Defense ammo gives it about the same penetration as a .380 rounds and you could, arguably, do a lot of damage with 10-20 rounds fired very rapidly.

 

[kokapelli]

Cheap, bulk 22LR Ammo will occasionally misfire, but I can't remember ever having a misfire with a 22WMR round. Maybe I am just lucky.

I do have a PMR30 that makes a lot of noise, throws a big fireball from the barrel and if I remember correctly gets up to well over 1300 fps from the PMR30 and has pretty good penetration in ballistic gelatin.

Recoil is pretty mild and with a 30+1 round capacity what's not to like?

Check out this gelatin test from the PMR30

 

[Varminterror]

Didn't we just do this?

 

[Tallball]

The obvious answer is a 32 magnum revolver. 32 S&W long feels about like a 22. Then there are two magnum calibers if you want to get fiesty. I am allways confused when people think there is nothing between 22 and 38.

 

[Balrog]

You can do all the reasoning you want ahead of time, but when that guy is coming at you, are you going to feel confident when you reach for that rimfire?
No.
Even granny is going to wish she had a centerfire.

If all granny can do with the centerfire is use it as a brick-bat, maybe she won't be too upset with a 22 she can actually operate?

 

[Balrog]

The obvious answer is a 32 magnum revolver. 32 S&W long feels about like a 22. Then there are two magnum calibers if you want to get fiesty. I am allways confused when people think there is nothing between 22 and 38.

Like I said, due to arthritis, the DA trigger pull is too much for her, and she can't cock the hammer.

 

[Balrog]

Once again, there's something pathological going on with .22lr on this forum. It's like people are trying to find any and all excuse to do something they know is a bad idea, and, because they do know it's a bad idea, they're looking for someone to help them rationalize it.

I totally get that not everyone can handle the recoil from a snubnose .38 or a micro .380, but there are soooo many other options, especially when we're talking about home defense. How about a full size .357 magnum with light .38 loads???

Or a full size 9mm 1911. Can't pull back the slide? Well, first of all, reloads in a self defense shooting are almost unheard of, but if you're really worried about it get a slide pull device.

And why are we limited to a pistol? We've got pump action .410 shotguns (loaded with slugs of course), pistol caliber carbines, and, wait for it, AR15s...which have almost zero recoil and many that come in under 6 lbs!

I'm just at a complete loss here. A .22 pistol is only a good idea if you ignore literally every other valid option.

Like I keep saying, revolvers are out. She has a hard time with the DA trigger and can't cock the hammer. I am open to other options than a 22 auto, but it is going to have to be an auto with a single action trigger pull that recoils less than a standard pressure 9mm, and I don't think there are many options with that. They don't make a 1911 in 32 magnum.

I realize up front and acknowledge that 22 LR is a less than ideal choice for defense. You don't have to try and convince me.

As for a rifle, I am not sure about that. She would have to figure out a way to store where grand kids would not get to it. They are in and out a lot. With a handgun, she can put it in a lock box.

 

[Balrog]

double tap sorry

 

[Kano383]

I've considered that, and actually grabbed quite a few times a .22 rifle when things went Bump in the night. The reason is that a .22 will not deafen you when shot indoors, and a .22 shot in the face will convince any would-be burglar that he'd better revise his plans for the night.

Here we have steel doors and steel bars at the windows, plus dogs in the garden, so it's not like they are going to jump you in your bed...

 

[sgt127]

...because when I get to the point I can't handle recoil, I'm probably going to move to a .22 WMR...... Either that or I'll just put low recoil 148 grain wadcutters of .38 Special into a revolver I already have.

No, no, no...NO!

NEVER make do with something you already have!! If you're not yet to the point of "needing" that other gun, NOW is the time to pick one up and see if it's what you need....

Geez...don't blow a perfectly good justification to buy a new toy.....