I'm looking for a flat shooting gun for long range mule deer? I already have a 30-06, which I love, but want another caliber to experiment with since I love to reload. Is there something out there that will shoot 400 yards and not drain the wallet too bad?
Flat shooting medium caliber?
- Thread starter Flyfrod
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scythefwd
Member
270, 300wm, 300wsm, 7mm08, 7mm mag. Once you get into the reloading, it isn't too bad. The rifles can be had for a few hundred, but should be compairable. The 300's will use the same projectiles as your '06, and shoot flatter.
AirForceShooter
Member
22-250
220 Swift.
AFS
220 Swift.
AFS
scythefwd
Member
Flyfrod, where are you hunting? Local laws will possibly help narrow down your ammo choices a little.
R.W.Dale
Member
It doesn't matter
really it doesn't
Inside the range you stipulate the differences in most contemporary HIGH VEL medium bore cartridges in terms of "flatness" is actually quite minuscule
for example---based on my software these are the numbers from a 200yd zero to 400yds for your 30-06 vs 264wm for the flatest shooting factory loads
30-06 150g Hornady LT mag 150grn SST @3100fps -18.6"
264wm 100g nosler partition @ 3500fps -16.6"
25-06rem 100g Nosler b-tip @ 3220fps -17.3"
yep all within a whopping 2" at 400yds
I compare factory loads because A its eaiser and B any of these numbers can be bettered by handloading
22-250 and 220swift would be in the -16" range firing 55g bullets
you'll be money and skill ahead if rather than buying a new gun you instead invest in a top notch optic and lots of components for your 06spring.
really it doesn't
Inside the range you stipulate the differences in most contemporary HIGH VEL medium bore cartridges in terms of "flatness" is actually quite minuscule
for example---based on my software these are the numbers from a 200yd zero to 400yds for your 30-06 vs 264wm for the flatest shooting factory loads
30-06 150g Hornady LT mag 150grn SST @3100fps -18.6"
264wm 100g nosler partition @ 3500fps -16.6"
25-06rem 100g Nosler b-tip @ 3220fps -17.3"
yep all within a whopping 2" at 400yds
I compare factory loads because A its eaiser and B any of these numbers can be bettered by handloading
22-250 and 220swift would be in the -16" range firing 55g bullets
you'll be money and skill ahead if rather than buying a new gun you instead invest in a top notch optic and lots of components for your 06spring.
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Different kind of mule deer.
The mule deer in the Southwest are small, and I have in all seriousness briefly mistaken a large jackrabbit for a deer jumping into the brush, when scouting down near the Mexican border. I'm not sure how many of them even hit 100 lbs.
The mule deer up north, OTOH, are huge, and the first time I drove by and saw a herd up close in an abandoned melon field, I pulled over just to stare. There had to be several in that (well-fed) herd topping 400 lbs.
I consider any .22 a small caliber, and you asked about a medium caliber. The 7mm to me is to close to being a .30 caliber which I consider a large caliber. My choice for a medium caliber would be the .25-06 Rem. Can't believe no one has suggested it yet. I've owned one for 30+ years. Flat shooting? The .25-06 is very capable of a flat trajectory to 500 yards. Also, the recoil is nowhere near objectionable.
This cartridge can be used for varmints with the 87 gr bullets or hunting larger game with the 100 to 120 gr bullets. It is a great all around cartridge. I used mine for groundhogs in the summer and deer during the season. I even took it hunting bear in Canada.
Another benefit, if you reload is you can use the same shell holder. This cartridge uses many of the same powders as the .30-06, so you wouldn't need additional powders on hand. If need be you can use the .30-06 brass and run it through the sizer converting it to .25-06. You could even use the same primers as you use in the .30-06.
This cartridge can be used for varmints with the 87 gr bullets or hunting larger game with the 100 to 120 gr bullets. It is a great all around cartridge. I used mine for groundhogs in the summer and deer during the season. I even took it hunting bear in Canada.
Another benefit, if you reload is you can use the same shell holder. This cartridge uses many of the same powders as the .30-06, so you wouldn't need additional powders on hand. If need be you can use the .30-06 brass and run it through the sizer converting it to .25-06. You could even use the same primers as you use in the .30-06.
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R.W.Dale
Member
25-06 numbers added to the above post
Yellowtail3
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Sounds like the 30-06 will do. As others point out - about as flat as the 'faster' cartridges, and it'll do a whole lot more damage when it gets there.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
The .270 Win is what you're lookin for----flat shooting--plenty of power---and doesn't come close to the beating(recoil) the '06 dishes out.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Comparative recoil for equal-weight rifles: Add the powder charge weight to the bullet weight and then multiply by the muzzle velocity. If you do that for a .270 and an '06, you'll see that there's not enough difference to matter.
A 150-grain bullet from an '06 will work to 500 yards on any deer in North America. The trouble is knowing that it's 500 yards, doping the wind, and knowing your hold-over. IOW, it ain't the gun, it's the shooter. Back around 300 yards, it's mostly "Point it and pull, Hell ain't half-full."
A 150-grain bullet from an '06 will work to 500 yards on any deer in North America. The trouble is knowing that it's 500 yards, doping the wind, and knowing your hold-over. IOW, it ain't the gun, it's the shooter. Back around 300 yards, it's mostly "Point it and pull, Hell ain't half-full."
Guess what my Idaho rifles are, with mule deer about in the middle of game size and weight.
An odd but persistent myth (tied with others that also suggest that .270 Winchester somehow defies all known natural laws).
A quick look at reloading charts shows that, for a given bullet weight, you typically use a few more grains of powder for .30-06 -- but you get a good deal more velocity from the .30-06. If you load them both to the same numbers, I don't think anyone could tell the difference between them.
Obviously, a 180 grain .30-06 load going 2750 fps at the muzzle will kick a bit harder than a 150 grain .270 load going 2750 fps at the muzzle -- but that's apples to oranges, and the difference still isn't that much.
berettashotgun
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When I read "medium" caliber, I thought the poster was referring to something .375 and down. my bad.
I'd take a 270 with 140gr handloads over any 30cal for deer. Any deer. 'cept South Texas - 22 hornet then
ROLL TIDE!!
I've always used a 270 - and have never had any trouble. Currently use a 7mm Remington, just so I can have bullet weight for those 35mph windy days in SW Oklahoma.
Ammo availability appears to be tough for anybody at this time, I'd stay away from any caliber choice not in stock at the local store.
270
30-06
25-06
308
243 ( It worked for my 2 boys for mule deer )
I wish the 6.5mm stuff was more available, I really want a 6.5mm Remington chambered 700.
my bad.I'd take a 270 with 140gr handloads over any 30cal for deer. Any deer. 'cept South Texas - 22 hornet then
ROLL TIDE!!I've always used a 270 - and have never had any trouble. Currently use a 7mm Remington, just so I can have bullet weight for those 35mph windy days in SW Oklahoma.
Ammo availability appears to be tough for anybody at this time, I'd stay away from any caliber choice not in stock at the local store.
270
30-06
25-06
308
243 ( It worked for my 2 boys for mule deer )
I wish the 6.5mm stuff was more available, I really want a 6.5mm Remington chambered 700.
Snakum
Member
I mainly shoot a 7mm mag or an 870 slug gun for deer, but when I went shopping for a new, lighter rifle I made a spreadsheet that averaged out velocities, energy, and trajectory for common calibers from 22-250 thru 7mm rem mag. I looked at the numbers for factory loads of a specific types (ie. ballistic tips, bondeds, pointed soft points, etc. of all grains from all mfrs) and averaged across all factory ammo brands and picked the flattest-shooting, highest energy rounds. The top choices were:
1st 7mm Rem Mag
2nd .270 Winchester
3rd 30-06 Springfield
4th .308 Winchester
5th 25-06
Already having a 7mm Mag and a hunting equipped AK (Yes, I have taken deer with an AKM), the .270 also fit perfectly in the stable, filling a gap. Even if I didn't have the 7mm already the .270 might have been the choice. Of course, the 30-06 is the most flexible round there is, as far as weights and speeds available with factory ammo. So, the numbers say that you already own what is just about the perfect all around hunting caliber out to 300 yards: 30-06. It seems you'd want to go bigger, up to 300 Win Mag (flat shooting hard hitting round with monster recoil and price), or go smaller with a flat-shooting, accurate, enough-for-mule-deer 25-06, which is also pricey. For cost, a .308 can't be beat and it's just about as flexible as the 30-06, and even better if you handload (so I've read).
But these guys have way more hunting experience than I do. So take my engineering study with a grain of salt. The real world is quite different than a spreadsheet.
1st 7mm Rem Mag
2nd .270 Winchester
3rd 30-06 Springfield
4th .308 Winchester
5th 25-06
Already having a 7mm Mag and a hunting equipped AK (Yes, I have taken deer with an AKM), the .270 also fit perfectly in the stable, filling a gap. Even if I didn't have the 7mm already the .270 might have been the choice. Of course, the 30-06 is the most flexible round there is, as far as weights and speeds available with factory ammo. So, the numbers say that you already own what is just about the perfect all around hunting caliber out to 300 yards: 30-06. It seems you'd want to go bigger, up to 300 Win Mag (flat shooting hard hitting round with monster recoil and price), or go smaller with a flat-shooting, accurate, enough-for-mule-deer 25-06, which is also pricey. For cost, a .308 can't be beat and it's just about as flexible as the 30-06, and even better if you handload (so I've read).
But these guys have way more hunting experience than I do. So take my engineering study with a grain of salt. The real world is quite different than a spreadsheet.
devildog32713
Member
.243 Winchester, flat shooting enough, low recoil.
257WM_CDL-SF
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- Mar 9, 2009
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257 Weatherby Magnum
7mm-08, because you can get a new Model 70 Featherweight in that caliber. There's no .25-06 (at least not yet).
In all seriousness, if you're looking at a production rifle, availability can influence caliber choice. If you look at the numbers, you can use any of these out to 400 yards with only minimal differences unless you step up to one of the magnums. So, a rifle I like (e.g. the Featherweight in a short action) can help make the decision.
There's no .25-06 (at least not yet).In all seriousness, if you're looking at a production rifle, availability can influence caliber choice. If you look at the numbers, you can use any of these out to 400 yards with only minimal differences unless you step up to one of the magnums. So, a rifle I like (e.g. the Featherweight in a short action) can help make the decision.
Al LaVodka
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Sir;
It is clear to me you need an excuse, um, reason to buy a new gun and I support you in this wholly. If starting from scratch I'd have thought about a .243, bought a .270, and used one of my .308 Magnums...
...that'd be a .30-06 with a 400 Yd. load.
Wanna go wild, literally? Since you reload, have one of your guns reamed to a .30-06 Ackley Improved. If you're using the slower-half of the powder spectrum you'll get 100 fps. more out of the gun and it can always continue to be used safely with factory .30-06 cartridges! Then you'll REALLY have a .308 Magnum.
Al
It is clear to me you need an excuse, um, reason to buy a new gun and I support you in this wholly. If starting from scratch I'd have thought about a .243, bought a .270, and used one of my .308 Magnums...
...that'd be a .30-06 with a 400 Yd. load.
Wanna go wild, literally? Since you reload, have one of your guns reamed to a .30-06 Ackley Improved. If you're using the slower-half of the powder spectrum you'll get 100 fps. more out of the gun and it can always continue to be used safely with factory .30-06 cartridges! Then you'll REALLY have a .308 Magnum.
Al
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