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Flattened WLP primers

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by tikit2ryde, Mar 11, 2012.

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  1. tikit2ryde

    tikit2ryde Member

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    Hi,

    I'm looking for some help in identifying a problem.

    My son and I are just gettig back into shooting and reloading after being out for about ten years,

    We loaded our best load from the past using WLP primers and got a surprise.

    The primers were flattened, there were no extraction problems from the cylinder or other evidence of over pressure.

    Gun is a Ruger hunter 44 mag. I belive a 71/2" barrel.

    Load is 180gr. XTP over 27.1gr of Vihtavuri N110 OCL 1.600

    The primers are a brass color and are different than the primers I removed from the cases when I preped them.

    The old primers were WLP also but silver in color and magnetic the new primers are not magnetic.

    Being out of touch for ten years was there a change in material used in WLP primers , the WLP primers in my old brass are not flattened using the same load and bullet but they are silver and mgnetic?

    I know this is a hot load but never had a problem before but I am concerned .

    This load shoot very well and I would like to still use it.

    Thanks for your help in advance.
     
  2. Salmoneye

    Salmoneye Member

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  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I shoot 20.4 Grs N100 under a 240 Gr jacketed bullet for 1350ish FPS from a 5.5" Redhawk. That is all the power I want. No signs of pressure on my WLP brass colored primers.

    For a 240 Gr jacketed bullet the 2011 Vihtavuori PDF gives a start load of 20.4 for 1427 FPS and a max of 22.1 for 1541 FPS from a 7" (presumably test - no cylinder gap) barrel.

    1300 to 1350 FPS is my happy spot with a 240 gr jacketed bullet in my Redhawk.


    For a 180 Gr jacketed bullet the 2011 Vihtavuori PDF gives a start load of 25.2 for 1614 FPS and a max of 27.1 for 1751 FPS from a 7" (presumably test - no cylinder gap) barrel.

    Did you start low and work up to 27.1 Grs Max load? We should never just pick the max load out, even with reliable load data, and start there. We should always start low and work up to it, stopping short of it if we see anything that alarms us.

    Some pics of the primers would help greatly.

    Welcome to THR.
     
  4. tikit2ryde

    tikit2ryde Member

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    This is a load we had worked up 10 years ago as I mentioned just starting back in the sport.

    Will try and send some photo's.

    But as I mentioned the primers a not the same I may try different primers.

    I have noticed that VV powders have changed some of their loads, I have 7 different editions including the newest off the internet.

    I know the load is hot but that is why we shoot a 44 magnum.

    Thanks
     
  5. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Flat is ok.
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    If brass ejects normally, it is fine.

    If you have to pound on the ejector rod, it isn't.

    rc
     
  7. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    I load a lot of magnum stuff using Win and CCI, and what I've noticed is the Win. primers flatten a bit mroe than do the CCI's with the same charge of H110.

    So long as you aren't seeing any high pressure signs, real high pressure signs such as difficult or sticky extraction, then your pressures are fine. Primers are about the worst sign to rely on to determine over pressures with.
     
  8. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    Welcome to The High Road!

    It's always good practice to reduce your load a bit and work back up whenever changing a component.
     
  9. Edarnold

    Edarnold Member

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    WLP primers

    The old Winchester primers were heavily plated producing a silver appearance, probably with nickel, also probably to avoid corrosion. The new plain brass version is bound to be softer, therefore more likely to flatten and crater. I also note that the new boxes for WLP indicate they are for standard and magnum loads, since Winchester's line of powders are all Ball-type, they would need a hotter priming compound to ensure proper ignition. Again, hotter primer = flatter primer.

    In a magnum caliber revolver, the deciding factor is extraction: if you have to beat the ejector to get the cases out, either your brass is too soft or the load is too hot.

    IMHO :)
     
  10. joneb

    joneb Member

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    From my experience sticky shell extraction is a sure sign of over pressure. In a over pressure situation the chamber will expand and spring back, the brass having less memory will expand and spring back less and thus stick in the chamber and that is bad.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  11. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    This is the reason manuals say you should work up your load every time you change components specially if using a different can (lot) of powder or change primers, cases, bullets. Back off a few grains and see if the problem goes away.
     
  12. 918v

    918v Member

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    Lets see some pics before we call this a "problem."
     
  13. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

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    So-called pressure signs in straight walled revolver cartridges are meaningless. Trust your data and verify with a chronograph.


    Or just rough chambers.
     
  14. tikit2ryde

    tikit2ryde Member

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    Thansks for all the help.

    We do not have any extraction problems with the cases they don't fall out but I can eject them with one finger and not much pressure.

    This is a load that I have shot before many many times.

    In the photo's the starline brass has the new WLP.

    The winchester has the old style primer


    Again thanks for the help.
     

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  15. joneb

    joneb Member

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    The data typically is safe for the weaker guns chambered for a cartridge, so if you have a Ruger Redhawk chambered for 357 magnum or a Freedom Arms model 97 in 44 spl. is it safe to load above the published maximum ? and how will you know when you are there ?
     
  16. 918v

    918v Member

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    Looks OK to me.
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Me too.
     
  18. Searcher4851

    Searcher4851 Member

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    You're pretty much running a max load. I'd pretty much expect to see the primer like that. The newer Win primers (brass colored) seem to be a little softer than the old "silver" ones. I'd bet with the old primers, there would be less flattening with the same load. Either way, from the pics, it looks like no big deal, I just wouldn't UP the load from there.

    Welcome to the forum.
     
  19. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    Looks about the way mine look when using Win primers and a hot load. I would say you are good to go. If you don't like those primers switch to CCI and they will not flatten as easily.
     
  20. tikit2ryde

    tikit2ryde Member

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    Thanks,

    I may try the CCI primers to see how they look, like I said I know this is a max compressed load just needed to bounce it off others to see if it looked safe, it has been 10 yrs. since we loaded any rounds.

    Thanks again for the help.
     
  21. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    If I was at a "max compressed load" I would not change any component without first reducing the load.
     
  22. JLDickmon

    JLDickmon Member

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    looks good to me.. If my cell phone didn't have such a crappy camera, I'd show you some FLAT primers...
     
  23. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    From my pal Walkalong....

    The one on the right is when you start worrying!

    [​IMG]


    Welcome to THR.
     
  24. JLDickmon

    JLDickmon Member

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    yep.
    THAT'S a flattened primer
     
  25. joneb

    joneb Member

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    It's when the head stamp goes away I get concerned :evil:
     
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