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Florida Sec 790.28

Discussion in 'Activism' started by Yoda, Sep 22, 2008.

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  1. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    If you're a Florida resident, please write a letter to your state representative urging them to repeal Sec 790.28. This single-sentence law "allows" Floridians to buy long guns (rifles and shotguns) in adjoining states. As near as I can tell, we're one of only six states with such a provision. What this means is that you could be traveling through Arizona or Virginia, see a rifle you want, but not be able to buy it and take possession on the spot. Instead, you'd have to have the FFL mail it to an FFL in Florida, where the Florida FFL will run the same NICS check that could have been run in the state where you first tried to purchase the gun.

    Our Florida laws are pretty good in most other respects. This one is a real oddity. It apparently was written when other laws throughout the nation were more restrictive, so at the time, it "gave" us perogatives that residents of most other states did not have. Now, it serves just two purposes. First, it imposes an unnecessary hassle on legal gun purchasers. Second, it allows ATF agents to play "gotcha" with FFLs in other states who aren't aware of Florida's Sec 790.28. Since there is a Federal law that says FFL can't sell to out-of-state buyers whose state of residence prohibit out-of-state purchases, then 790.28 serves as a trap for unwary FFLs in the 47 states that DON'T adjoin Florida.

    Please write a letter to your representative. I've already written to marion Hammer and to 23 Florida state senators and representatives. These guys respond to letters. Write one.

    - - - Yoda

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  2. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    oh, yeah, and another thing....

    I forgot to mention above that if there were no Florida Sec 790.28, then we could buy long guns in ANY state, just like the residents of most other states can.

    - - - Yoda

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  3. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    have you tried contacting your state gun association(s) about this? they are probably in a better position to do something about this than a random group of internet posters. a group that can get shall issue CC in FL can get this law changed as well.
     
  4. bubba1

    bubba1 Member

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    then we could buy long guns in ANY state, just like the residents of most other states can.

    You already can! 790.28 doesn't contain any prohibition on buying long guns in any other state.
     
  5. mbdolfin

    mbdolfin Member

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    GOD! NJ doesn't even have a law like that.

    i buy long guns in Pennsylvania all the time and i live in NJ. it won't be too long before some idiot proposes a bill like this in NJ.
     
  6. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    Already thought of it...

    Guys - - -

    I've already started correspondence with Marion Hammer, plus I've sent letters to 23 state representatives and senators.

    For what it's worth, yes, there is no penalty specified in state law for violating 790.28. When it was written, it was supposed to EXPAND our rights. Now, however, it does just the opposite. While state law prescribes no penalty, federal law does.

    In addition, according to an FFL friend, the BATFE is checking bills of sale to see if there are any violations to the federal law that says you can't sell and transfer possession to someone who is limited by a state 790.28-type law. So, laws such as this allow the feds to play "gotcha" with the FFLs.

    Take a few minutes and write a letter to your state representative. If nothing else, this will allow us to keep the momenteum going and se who is really on our side.

    - - - Yoda

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  7. xd45gaper

    xd45gaper Member

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    http://http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC28.HTM&Title=-%3E2006-%3ECh0790-%3ESection%2028

    maybe im reading this wrong but contingous state means any of the lower 48 right? i dont see anything saying you have to have it mailed to a local dealer for another nix check
     
  8. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    I don't see that the wording says you can't buy from any other state. Since there is no other prohibition on buying them in other states, I don't see how it is prohibited.
     
  9. Jaxon

    Jaxon Member

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    There's no way to 'violate' 790.28 because it describes no violation. If it were unlawful for Florida residents to buy rifles out of state, there would be a law worded as such:

    "Whoever buys a rifle in any state other than Florida is guilty of/commits a felony/misdemeanor ..."
    "It is unlawful/prohibited to buy a rifle in any state other than Florida. Whoever violates this section is guilty of/commits a..."

    Remember, it's a principle of law in the United States that you're allowed to do anything you want, except those things that are specifically prohibited by law.

    If you believe that there is a federal law or regulation that makes the activity you describe unlawful, and that repealing 790.28 would make that activity lawful under that federal law or regulation, please name it for us.
     
  10. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    I know the law specifies no penalty, BUT...

    Federal law is the threat here.

    First, while the State of Florida wouldn't prosecute you, the feds might, because federal law (and no, I don't know which one) doesn't allow you to buy in any of the non-contiguous states unless your state allows it. Thus, someone I may know might have bought rifles in Arizona, North Carolina, and Virgina, just to get told in South Carolina that a sale couldn't proceed unless the gun was shipped to an FFL in Florida.

    Second, the bigger threat is to the FFLs. I know an FFL who was recently inspected by BATFE, and he said that they were specifically checking for face-to-face sales to individuals from the six or so states that prohibit out-of-state purchases. Since every state's laws are different, this is an easy "gotcha" for BATFE, and we all know who much they like to play "gotcha."

    If repealing the law makes no real difference, then let's repeal it for no other reason than it's unnecessary. However, it DOES make a difference, and we should repeal it for those reasons.

    - - - Yoda

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  11. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    Thanks to bubb1....

    He gave me a link to aBATFE Q&A site, with the following info:

    (F2) May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State? [Back]

    Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]

    Here's an excert from the law:

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver...
    ...(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes...

    - - - Yoda
     
  12. bubba1

    bubba1 Member

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    Second, the bigger threat is to the FFLs. I know an FFL who was recently inspected by BATFE, and he said that they were specifically checking for face-to-face sales to individuals from the six or so states that prohibit out-of-state purchases.

    Maybe, but Florida isn't one of them - 790.28 doesn't prohibit purchases in non-contiguous States.
     
  13. guernseyrifleman

    guernseyrifleman Member

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    The Florida statute in question was passed in response to the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968. That act specified that rifles and shotguns could be purchased in a contiguous state if both your state and the contiguous state passed implementing legislation. In 1986 Bob Dole got reform legislation passed which among other things changed the contiguous state provision to any state so long as the sale would be legal in either state. As pointed out, those states which have not repealed the moot contiguous state statutes have no penalty clause since they were not criminal statutes but were instead civil in nature.
    At Camp Perry, Ohio starting last year some of the vendors on commercial row were mislead into believing the Ohio contiguous state statute was restrictive in nature. Other vendors, including some big name ones, knew better and picked up sales from the dumb dealers.
    The BATFE is a criminal gang which makes up the rules as it goes along. Until it experiences some serious consequences for its misdeeds it will continue to do so. John Ross in Unintended Consequences presents some examples. Matt Bracken in Enemies Foreign And Domestic does also. My novel Neither Predator Nor Prey www.neitherpredatornorprey is especially instructive.
     
  14. Bill2e

    Bill2e Member

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    I thought 790.28 meant that as a FL resident I could buy a long gun Face to Face in GA WITHOUT an FFL.
     
  15. bubba1

    bubba1 Member

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    Bill2e - 790.28 has nothing to do with private purchases out of state; that is prohibited by federal law.
     
  16. kentucky_Dave

    kentucky_Dave Member

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    The Florida law permits purchase in contiguous states.
    Contiguous states are defined as:
    1. Sharing an edge or boundary; touching.
    2. Neighboring; adjacent.

    If that law is repealed, then the federal law would be permitted to restrict any such transactions if the DC crowd decided to write one, correct?

    IMO...Federal law has too much power in this case. (in most cases really…stepping on state toes)
    Their restriction is not conducive to "Freedom" and living as we see fit.
    What purpose does it serve for the federal lawmakers to restrict us to purchases in our own state and those adjoining our state; thus, increasing the cost of buying a new gun? How is that in our interest?

    I think, if anything is done, we should be going after the restrictions of federal law and having the federal law revised to specifically permit all purchases throughout the nation and leave the Florida statute alone.

    Then again, maybe I am not seeing the point here.
    It looks like a proposal to remove a law is in motion.

    Am I correct in interpreting that if that law is removed, the federal restriction still prohibits such transactions?

    If so, what’s the point?
     
  17. bubba1

    bubba1 Member

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    If so, what’s the point?

    I'm not sure what's the point of this, it's come up a couple times in recent weeks.

    Federal law allows you to purchase long guns (but not handguns) in any state, as long as you're legal to buy one in your home state, and the state where the purchase is made.

    There is no Florida law that says you can't buy a long gun in any other state.

    FS 790.28 is an artifact and means nothing - see post #13.
     
  18. Bill2e

    Bill2e Member

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    From bubba1
    I do not believe you are correct. I believe the law allows FL residents to buy long guns face to face from residents of adjoining states, not hund guns is a different story.
     
  19. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    can somebody please post 790.28 in its entirety?

    My internet is really slow all of a sudden.
     
  20. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    It doesn't matter much what FL has to say about it. federal law prohibits private transactions across state lines.
     
  21. Mickstix

    Mickstix Member

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    790.28 Purchase of rifles and shotguns in contiguous states.--A resident of this state may purchase a rifle or shotgun in any state contiguous to this state if he or she conforms to applicable laws and regulations of the United States, of the state where the purchase is made, and of this state.

    History.--s. 1, ch. 79-44; s. 1219, ch. 97-102.


    Copyright © 1995-2008 The Florida Legislature • Privacy Statement • Contact Us
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's definitely a stupid law.. But I think the OP was basically saying, by having this law, it's what's NOT written that matters.. Meaning if there's a law that says we CAN buy long guns from those states, it must also mean (or leaves room to interpret) that it's UNLAWFUL to purchase from any state that's NOT contiguous??
     
  22. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    thanks. That was short as could be......

    hmmm.... I'm getting the impression this law is very very old.

    I'm going to ask some of the prosecutors I see at work about this law. Maybe they can shed some light on it. I get the impression they're neutral on the gun issue, so I don't think they'll mind. They're nice guys and pretty knowledgeable.

    I get the impression this law doesn't really do anything at all.
     
  23. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    The law DOES mean something!

    It means that on a recent trip through South Carolina, a gun store operator wouldn't sell me a rifle, because his state prohibits sales to people who reside in states that have laws like 790.28.

    - - - Yoda (deployed)

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  24. rkba_net

    rkba_net Member

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    The original poster is mistaken.... a little history here... prior to 1986 the Gun Control Act of 1968 allowed one to buy a LONG-GUN ONLY from an FFL IN A ADJOINING STATE, HOWEVER THE STATES INVOLVED HAD TO PASS ENABLING LEGISLATION. Many states still have a law on the books that says "it is legal to purchase a long-gun from an adjoining state" etc etc. These laws are obsolete and mean nothing now. They do NOT criminalize anything. In 1986 the Gun Owners Protection Act passed, this law allows one to buy a long-gun from ANY out of state FFL as long as both states laws are obeyed (permits, registration, waiting periods etc etc). No enabling legislation is needed. Many FFL's do not know this...
     
  25. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    No entirely so...

    The FFL in South Carolina spcifically cited a Soputh Carolina law that prohibited him from selling to anyone from a state with a provision similar to 790.28. He said there were about six states that had such provisions still on the books. In addition, an FFL friend in Florida says the BATFE is now looking at sales records for direct transfers to buys from states with similar provisions.

    Why give the bad guys (that would be the government in general and the ATF in particular) any rope to hang us with. All it takes is one prosecuter with an urge to get an easy kill and a judge who has an agenda, and you've got instant felons!

    - - - Yoda

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