Florida teachers can arm themselves under new gun bill

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The law requires each school district to "opt-in" to the School Guardian program in order for teachers to volunteer to participate. There is a lot of fine print. Staff members will have to be trained by the sheriff who has jurisdiction over their district, or another sheriff if theirs declines to participate.The state has 67 county school districts, along with seven other "unconventional" ones. I see less than one third or so participating. Texas has over a thousand districts, with fewer than 20 percent in as of last year. I can almost guarantee my county won't sign on.

SSN Vet writes:

One AD or one handgun snatched and used by a juvenile to shoot someone and this whole gig will be one big misfire.

I give it 12 months
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The Texas program has been in place since 2013. That same year, Utah amended its firearms laws to permit any carry licensee to carry on school grounds.

In fact, I count 32 states that have laws on the books that offer provisions for at least some school staff/faculty members to be armed. Florida would be the 33rd.
 
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MedWheeler said:
The state has 67 county school districts, along with seven other "unconventional" ones. I see less than one third or so participating.
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From the article: "In anticipation of passage, school employees in 40 of Florida’s 67 counties already enrolled in or planned to take the 144-hour course..." I believe that is closer to 2/3 than 1/3.


MedWheeler said:
The Texas program has been in place since 2013. That same year, Utah amended its firearms laws to permit any carry licensee to carry on school grounds.

In fact, I count 32 states that have laws on the books that offer provisions for at least some school staff/faculty members to be armed. Florida would be the 33rd.
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It would be interesting to see how many teachers, in total, were armed in the classroom and how many ADs or kids trying to grab guns from teachers have happened.
 
SSN Vet said:
One AD or one handgun snatched and used by a juvenile to shoot someone and this whole gig will be one big misfire.

I give it 12 months
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Your concerns are not without merit, and you may well be proven correct, however, anything is better than nothing.

My take on this is that, while I may not choose to carry in my classroom (my district would fight this to the bitter end anyway - and I'm no longer in Florida), this would give me the option to keep a firearm on my vehicle so that I can at least be armed off campus before and after my work day.

The real bottom line here is that it's past time to stop denying teachers their most basic human and Constitutional rights.
 
Lee county opted out, but they where all for hiring veterans to serve as armed guards. I can get behind that.
 
Labguy47 said:
Lee county opted out, but they where all for hiring veterans to serve as armed guards. I can get behind that.
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So my thought on this is what message does that send? I interpret that to mean "only members or former members of the armed forces should have guns." I don't the second amendment (or any other) right should e "earned" through military service.
 
What they are saying is let veterans who are trained to run towards gunfire do it. I did it for 8 years until I got hurt, Just because we didn’t make it to retirement doesn’t mean we aren’t useful. Lots of Marines would think this job therapeutic. I mean who wouldn’t protect little Lizzie?!?
 
The sheriff that chaired the committee is from Pinellas Co. FL the same county that jumped so hard on the no armed teacher bandwagon the springs broke.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
It would be interesting to see how many teachers, in total, were armed in the classroom and how many ADs or kids trying to grab guns from teachers have happened.
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Not all of these were authorized carry...

Discharges of guns by teachers...
California https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/us/california-teacher-fires-gun/index.html (teaching gun safety)
Utah http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/utah-teacher-shoots-herself-the-leg-while-school
Alabama https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/...ischarges-in-1st-grade-alabama-classroom.html

Student steals gun from teacher's purse
Arkansas https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2012/jan/17/jacksonville-high-student-steals-gun-teacher/

Guns left in restrooms by teachers...
Pennsylvania https://www.abc15.com/news/national/penn-teacher-leaves-loaded-gun-in-school-bathroom
Florida https://www.app.com/story/news/2018...-leaves-loaded-gun-public-bathroom/510362002/

Lost gun on campus...
Florida https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2009-04-14-gunteach14-story.html

Armed teacher melts down, becomes the threat...
https://nypost.com/2018/02/28/teacher-with-gun-sparks-school-lockdown/

Not a teacher, but an elementary student succeeded in disarming a guard...


Here are a few other SRO/Guard incidents where they managed to discharge guns in schools, the first one in Florida from YESTERDAY...

Florida https://www.newsweek.com/florida-po...arge-thomas-e-weightman-middle-school-1411080
Virginia https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...lly-Fires-Weapon-Inside-School-476676103.html
Texas https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/M...es-Gun-Inside-Horn-High-School-508765901.html (two weeks ago)
There are other SRO incidents, but that isn't the focus of this thread.
 
Considering that quite a few UT teachers have carried into schools for years, one ND by a teacher is news, but not big news.
I lived in UT for many years and understood that half the teachers in the local school district were most likely packing a weapon while teaching. In fact, I dated one and we, along with her fellow teachers used to head out onto BLM lands and shoot quite often.
 
D. B. Cooper writes:

From the article: "In anticipation of passage, school employees in 40 of Florida’s 67 counties already enrolled in or planned to take the 144-hour course..." I believe that is closer to 2/3 than 1/3.
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They can enroll and train all they want. If their district does not participate, then all they'll get out of it is some good training (144 hours) for home and self-defense away from work. Those who, when surveyed, said they "planned" to take the training are probably waiting on the go-ahead from their employers.

Just as an example, Palm Beach County (sometimes known as "the sixth borough of New York City") never even signed on to the original Guardian program, and has indicated that this changes nothing. In a meeting held earlier today, the reports indicate only opposition by teachers to "guns in the classroom", with at least one being quoted as saying that protection needs to be "left to the professionals in law enforcement."

It would be interesting to see how many teachers, in total, were armed in the classroom and how many ADs or kids trying to grab guns from teachers have happened.
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My guess is so small a number of incidents in comparison to the total number of weapons lawfully on school grounds have occurred that it really is a non-issue (just like with lawfully-armed citizens in the community as a whole.) But, that's not how the media (or the government) portrays it.
 
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MedWheeler said:
D. B. Cooper writes:



They can enroll and train all they want. If their district does not participate, then all they'll get out of it is some good training (144 hours) for home and self-defense away from work. Those who, when surveyed, said they "planned" to take the training are probably waiting on the go-ahead from their employers.
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You raise a good point. I inferred, possibly in error, that those 40 districts had approved of the program. (Otherwise, why would someone enroll in the course if they know their district superintendent isn't going to approve the program?)
 
D.B. Cooper said:
You raise a good point. I inferred, possibly in error, that those 40 districts had approved of the program. (Otherwise, why would someone enroll in the course if they know their district superintendent isn't going to approve the program?)
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In the hope that their boards will see the light and the hope that something will change for the better.
 
Labguy47 said:
What they are saying is let veterans who are trained to run towards gunfire do it. I did it for 8 years until I got hurt, Just because we didn’t make it to retirement doesn’t mean we aren’t useful. Lots of Marines would think this job therapeutic. I mean who wouldn’t protect little Lizzie?!?
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It's not about who is or isn't "useful"; it's about the idea of "earning" your rights through military service. If you can only exercise your rights of citizenship if you served in the military (Something the Spartans did in ancient Greece), then they aren't rights-they're compensation.
 
P5 Guy said:
The sheriff that chaired the committee is from Pinellas Co. FL the same county that jumped so hard on the no armed teacher bandwagon the springs broke.
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Which is interesting considering all the issues that department had when I lived in the area. But I won't go into that.
 
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D.B. Cooper said:
It's not about who is or isn't "useful"; it's about the idea of "earning" your rights through military service. If you can only exercise your rights of citizenship if you served in the military (Something the Spartans did in ancient Greece), then they aren't rights-they're compensation.
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Incorrect, we are granted certain unalienable rights. Sometimes you must fight for those who can't see the deeper meaning of why we do what we do. It’s ok if you chose a different path. I stood before an American Flag and took an oath. As far as I can remember I have not been relieved of that oath.
 
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Labguy47 said:
Incorrect, we are granted certain unalienable rights. Sometimes you must fight for those who can't see the deeper meaning of why we do what we do. It’s ok if you chose a different path. I stood before an American Flag and took an oath. As far as I can remember I have not been relieved of that oath.
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We're wandering at this point, but I would just point out that I, too, took the same oath. However, I don't believe that someone who did not take that oath should be denied his or her 2nd (or 1st or 4th etc) amendment rights or is somehow a lesser class citizen than me. But at this point, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
I think it would be better to improve ways on keeping firearms out of school. Schools are like prisons these days and there's a reason why firearms aren't brought in there. By arming teachers you've just made it easier. Jump the teacher and take the gun.
 
shafter writes:

Schools are like prisons these days and there's a reason why firearms aren't brought in there.
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Absolutely. That's why prisons are so safe.

EDIT: My point is that the lack of firearms within prisons doesn't necessarily equate to "community safety".

Schools and prisons differ in that the flow of people in and out of one is far greater than of the other, and I just can't see any practical way to make them more similar in how that takes place. I agree that hardening points of entry/egress is a first and important step, one that has already been addressed in many areas. It will never, however, get to the point of multiple officers guarding a single entrance, complete with a sally port and locked intake room, processing every person who enters and exits.

I'm not necessarily a supporter of classroom teachers being armed as a duty (I'm still gathering information), but I am inclined to believe a trained staff member who does indeed accept a duty to respond, and is equipped to do so can be a powerful asset, and more than one is even more so.

The Florida Guardian program isn't intended to allow any teacher to simply start carrying her little .25ACP or .38 snub in her purse. A lot of the 144 hours of training that will be required of anyone becoming an armed staff member is on safe selection, carry, and retention.
 
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