FN Scar 17...

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Hatterasguy

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I love it, I got to handle one this weekend for the first time. Slightly larger than the 16, but not horrible so. Feels like a very well made piece. It seems to be the only real 21st century battle rifle on the market currently, its the grandson of my Fn49 and it feels like they are from the same family.

When the price drops below $4k in my state I'll buy one. I think MSRP is in the low 3k range which is far, its a nice rifle.

FN is smart I can see this rifle marching around the world like the Fal did. More so if the changes they want to make to the 17's lower are implemented.

Now my one question is should I go with black, or that nice tan/dark earth or whatever its called that modern rifles seem to be going to? The dark earth would look nice alongside my FN49.:cool: Now I just need a Fal with some baby poop camo on it and I'll have the complete collection.:D
 
Since I am currently without a .308/7.62NATO this is on the list of possibilities, looks promising but is a bit on the pricey side. I wouldn't rule it out though.
 
Define "wicked awesome".

What do you use it for? Other than to have which is just fine.

Just curious, I have an AR-15 that I think I bought because as a former USMC infantryman with one tour in Iraq I kind of felt naked not having one around. It barely ever sees any use once I realized my days of being called on to hump a rifle and a pack around were really behind me. So what is the SCAR really good for, at least for someone who no longer has a pressing need for tactical type gear?
 
fun, cool looking, and comfort in the fact that you have one of the baddest mambajambas out there
 
The price tag on those reflects the import duty slapped onto all incoming foreign guns not made in the US. Both HK's and FN's and other Euro-trash guns are expensive because the buyer is paying for the privilege of buying an imported heavily taxed firearm; it has nothing to do with superior quality, etc. Don't believe the hype; it's a fancy piston driven AR-10 in plastic pajamas.
 
I have not shot one but handling one the other day made me want it!

I don't know if I'd choose it over a LMT or GAP AR-10 though.

Now, the MK 20 looks ridiculously nice. American Rifleman quotes FN as claiming 1/4 moa. I'm not sure I believe that but 1/2 moa would be really great in a semi .308.

I wonder how it really shoots....
 
Don't believe the hype; it's a fancy piston driven AR-10 in plastic pajamas.

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

Real men (and women) use Armalite.

I apologize for having absolutely nothing useful to add to this post. But that was too funny!
 
That is one cool rifle. But the price is a bit steep for me. On the color..flip a coin
 
The price tag on those reflects the import duty slapped onto all incoming foreign guns not made in the US. Both HK's and FN's and other Euro-trash guns are expensive because the buyer is paying for the privilege of buying an imported heavily taxed firearm; it has nothing to do with superior quality, etc. Don't believe the hype; it's a fancy piston driven AR-10 in plastic pajamas.

What's that old line...something about opening one's mouth and removing all doubt? :)

It has a reciprocating charging handle, is truly ambidextrous, has a standard buttstock with adjustments for better cheekweld, has no buffer tube which allows for a folding buttstock, is piston driven rather than direct impingement, and was actually designed for the piston system.

What else am I missing?
 
I have the same problem, I like flat dark earth a LOT but there is something real legit about an all black rifle.
 
By wicked awsome I ment.... WICKED AWSOME!!! I used the MK18 Mod 0 when I was in. They work okay, but the SCAR just shoots different... better in my opinion. It does something that a compensator on the end of an AR cant do. After the shot has left the barrel and the bolt carrier unit is coming back forward, loading a new round this massive chunk of steel (bolt carrier unit) rocks over the center of gravity (just in front of the mag well) and your sights rock back on target.
 
I suppose one other thing we are overlooking is the potential for easy user performed barrel/caliber changes that don't involve an entire upper receiver.
 
It's better then having to replace everything after 3000 rounds like those Armalites

Yea well 99.999% of the pajama warriors here wouldn't put 500 rounds on a rifle in 50 years so Armalite works just fine.
 
^ I was thinking that, but didn't necessarily want to be the first one to point it out.

I'll also be the first to admit as I did above that I no longer personally see any overwhelming realistic need to have the capabilities of this rifle. I am no longer employed by Uncle Sugar in a capacity where I am expected to hurt folks and break things..... so not sure what I would use it for. I still want one though, but it is strictly a want and not a need.
 
I want one because I like collecting guns and I want one of everything. Why does it have to be a choice between a Scar and AR, M1A or whatever? Own them all and enjoy them all for what they are.

I find the Scar so interesting because its the first really 21st century rifle to be fielded. Everything else on the market is left over from very old designs.

Reading the specs on them I would expect a Scar 17 to exceed an M1A in all regards, accuracy, reliability, etc. I found when handling one that it felt lighter and certainly more compact than any other 7.62 battle rifle I have ever handled. Ergo's are excellent, very ARish except for the charging handle. Its also pretty narrow which is nice. Ski boot stock is ugly as can be but its functional. Fit in finish is on par with the highest end AR's. LWRC, Noveske, Les Bear, etc.

Some people complain about the reciprocating charging handle, but I think that's just people who are to used to AR's talking. Just about every rifle outside the AR has one/
 
It has a reciprocating charging handle, is truly ambidextrous, has a standard buttstock with adjustments for better cheekweld, has no buffer tube which allows for a folding buttstock, is piston driven rather than direct impingement, and was actually designed for the piston system.

A different feature isn't necessarily a better one. Reciting a list of features doesn't make them superior in and of themselves, it's the ability to do something in a measurable superior way compared to some other method.

Don't forget, what the SCAR also does well is have all the M16 enhancements built into the basic platform up front. It's the next step based on the pioneer breaking trail. It didn't invent anything more, just used what has been out there for decades in other firearms.

Name one original, unique design feature of any SCAR that hasn't been sold for years for the AR market. Really.

Including them in one package just makes it an incremental improvement at best. The cost certainly proves it, the law of diminishing returns means you get a piston AR that was at least run through an engineering analysis as a fix up, for twice the price.

That still doesn't justify how much better any one of the listed items might be better, if at all. Reciprocating charging handles get hung up on door jambs or tree trunks, watch that. Shooting off handed is rare, a urban combat or competition range technique most owners never practice. An adjustable buttstock is an institutional compromise, if it's your weapon, either get one the right length, or get used to it like millions of others have successfully done. Being able to run it shorter for body armor, may I ask to see how many 1) own body armor, 2) shoot with body armor? Only mil/LEO do that, a small number of professionals.

Folding buttstock? You have to shoot a weapon accurately with it extended, no one can really shoot from the hip and hit anything. Delaying the time to get a weapon into a ready to use shooting position doesn't sound like an enhancement, it's accepting a compromise because they were hiding in a cramped armored vehicle. That's really a doctrinal issue on low intensity conflict, not a superior feature.

As for being a piston, it's based on assuming it's operation is superior to DI. That argument's been going on for over 45 years, pick which side you want to ignore. It's already apparent someone has - which means they are in denial that a combat weapon used for 45 years in over a dozen conflicts does the job. Pointing that out, all over again, for multiple pages, isn't the point of the thread. 9 million M16/M4/AR15's, with over 20 million trained users in the US alone, won't change some minds. They prefer to work in ignorance.

If you want to spend money for something, go ahead. Folks do that with cars, watches, and knives all day. Justifying the expense is really no one else's business - unless tactical and combat reasons are pushed on a public forum to be examined and questioned. Well, there are good reasons not to, just like spending $4000 on a Rolex doesn't compare to a quality $400 quartz chronograph. You will get more for your money with the less expensive watch, you won't get the social enhancement of wearing a Rolex.

It's a choice, but it doesn't mean it's a proven superior in tactical use, and it will not make the owner superior, either.

That takes hard work, developing skill, and the expense of training and ammo.
 
The only people I have ever heard complain about a reciprocating charging handle are AR-15 owners on forums. I have never heard anyone who actually fielded an M-1, M-14, AK variant, or anything else with a reciprocating charging handle in combat conditions complain about it causing malfunctions.

I do know that all my rifles with reciprocating charging handles are easier to clear malfunctions with than my AR's... on the rare occasion that they malfunction in the first place. And I think an AR would likely malfunction as well if you shot it with the ejection port side against the ground or something.
 
I was lucky enought to have the pleasure of shooting a SCAR17 this weekend. I will give you my impressions. WOW and REALLY WOW! It is a REALLY nice rifle. I was shocked at the balance and the overall light weight of the system. I really dont like ARs sometimes, because of the tendency for them to be nose heavy. The SCAR was balance perfectly. Shouldering the rifle is a bit of a different feel if you're used to the AR platform but it feels great when mounted. You expect clunky, what you get is comfort and strength. The controls were totally and the safety and mag release are in the same vicinity as an AR but are a little bit of a reach in both cases. Another suprise was recoil, I dont know about all the claims of no recoil but it did feel like a 5.56 to me. I was awaiting a FAL like recoil and got a M4 piston feel. The direction is straight back and not up at all. I was shocked and after hitting a steel plate at 50yard offhand easily I put three more into a silhouette at 100 yards rapid fire. Recovery was swift and EASY. The sights were very quick to pick up and place back on target. It really did feel like a very, very slick piston gun. Anyhow I will tell you one thing. I really cant put my finger on the why or how but the rifle just feels reliable, it was very smooth, it feels like she could just go and go and go. The SCAR felt like a mercedes diesel, not stress, long legs and yet responsive.

The owner broke it down and we went over the internals. I am not an engineer, but the cam system looked familiar, like a automobile camshaft.

Another impresison I walked away with was the thought that this was a system designed with a long lifecycle in mind and the ability to withstand punishment. Specifically I am speaking of harsh envirenments and high round counts without cleaning/lube etc etc. It will serve a weekend shooter well for decades... easily. You know how when you pick up a Garand and you heft it and think "Man now wonder we kicked the hell out of the Germand and Japanese." The SCAR17 has that same esoteric feel, you can feel the quality, the high end materials, the strength of the design. Then you realize you have 20rds of cover into concealment power at your fingertips.

If the mil wants a new MBR to replace the M4s and the 5.56 platform, I know where my vote lies.

Just so I dont get "No pics didn't happen" flak, here you go. That is me by the way. No sane person would admit to being that old, fat and ugly.
 

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The SCAR is a great rifle, but it will never replace the AK, and will never me as mass produced at the FAL and G3, those rifles are produced for alot cheaper, and SCARs are luxury rifles for even our military, since so few units have them, and most are issued to SOCOM.
 
Tirod,

So I take it you will not be buying a SCAR 17 then?

Perhaps your complaint is with the SCAR 16? Which I agree is completely pointless.

The SCAR 17 on the other hand accomplishes something the AR-15 fails miserably at, which is accommodating the 7.62mm NATO. Sure you could buy an AR-10 or an M1A if you wanted a 7.62mm NATO in an auto loader. However I have yet to see anyone claim that the AR-10 is anywhere near as reliable as the AR-15 and I have personally witnessed plenty of problems with them. The M1A is a good choice and I have owned two of them, but if you desired any kind of changes in barrel length or you want optics on top you are looking at re-barreling the rifle, and trying to make a saddle type mount work right on top.

Some of the features you seem to despise so much like a collapsible/adjustable butt stock I find really useful since I have a spouse who is about 4 inches shorter than I am and has a shorter length of pull. The collapsible stock on my AR-15 makes it one of her favorite rifles. The SCAR 16 I handled did have that nice adjustable height comb too, which I thought was goofy looking but dammit if it wasn't actually useful.

As for the folding ability, well I don't see much use for it other than making storage easier in some cases and allowing a less conspicuous carry case or bag to be used. To me it is not a big deal, but the stock locks out solid in the extended position and doesn't wobble around so it is not a deal breaker either.

The whole argument over DI vs piston is an amusing one, since both work just fine given sound engineering of either system. In the AR-15 DI is at it's best with a rifle length barrel and gas system or a mid length, the shorty carbine gas port pressures and resulting bolt carrier velocities can be pretty hard on bolts, extractors, and cam pins. Of course that is for a user who is really firing a lot of rounds, and doing so really quickly. The piston guns are much easier to maintain and keep clean, it is pretty bad when it takes less time to clean an M249 that you just put 5-700rounds through than it takes to clean your M16A4 with less than half that round count. If accuracy can be maintained and I can have easier clean up I will go for that every time.

The whole charging handle argument is also pretty silly. Either one will work just fine as long as the AR-15 type rifle has a forward assist, which I have had to use on occasion to get the first round chambered properly. I have never heard of a reciprocating charging handle hanging up on door jambs or tree stumps either, at least not of the rifle user had a clue about not letting their weapon come into direct contact with a hard object on firing.

Anyhow what I see is a lot of AR-15 owner angst that they don't have the greatest toy anymore. Just like anyone else who looks to re-affirm their decisions, AR enthusiasts have to berate the new kid on the block to make themselves feel better, and (gasp...) their daydreams of being a super ninja commando deltaforce super SEAL with their AR-15 that they dumped a lot of $$$ into, are now all screwed up because they don't have the right rifle anymore. Then they find out the new super ninja tactical rifle of choice is also kind of pricey. This makes them angry, as we can see by your post, and they go and tell anyone who will listen.

Then other people who don't feel absolutely tied to one type of rifle, like me, point and laugh at them.
 
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