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For bear country: .45 ACP +P or Tokarev?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Retro, Mar 16, 2009.

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  1. Retro

    Retro Member

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    Just curious as to which one of the two following pistol calibers (.45 ACP +P or Tokarev) are more capable than the other to stop a grizzly bears or mountain lion at 15-20 yards?

    Don't really care for other calibers since I don't have them. Yes, I know, 44 mag or .357 mag, but I have neither.

    Thanks.

    R
     
  2. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    I'd go with the .45, there are a lot more options for effective ammo around for that round.

    unless you can get RAUFUSS rounds for the TT, or whatever they're called. :neener:

    I imagine with either you'd probably get eaten by the bear. Avoidance might be the best policy. Maybe a small extra child or buddy you can outrun.
     
  3. Billy Shears

    Billy Shears Member

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    If your goal is dealing with grizzly bears, you need to get something bigger. It doesn't really matter if you don't care for or have guns in other calibers, and it certainly won't matter to the bear. I'm not trying to be snide here, but you really need to bring enough gun if you think you might need one for a bear. If you aren't willing to spend the money on a new gun, get bear spray or something, but in God's name don't shoot one with a gun too small to get the job done. You really, really don't want 1500 pounds of enraged predator bearing down on you at 40mph, and you armed with a gun that won't stop it in time, unless you achieve a perfect hit to an immediately vital area -- which is something you are most unlikely to do in the chaos and fear of such a moment.
     
  4. Marlin 45 carbine

    Marlin 45 carbine Member

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    the .45acp would do for mountain lion but grizz? you'd have to be a very good shot and lucky enough to get one for it to be effective.
    get a .45 Colt or .44mag with jacked-up hard cast slugs. or something even bigger than those.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    All these helpful posts notwithstanding, you can easily make the appropriate decision for yourself.

    Watch this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc&NR=1

    Then come back and tell us which you've decided to carry for large bears.

    -Sam
     
  6. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    If your goal is in case of a grizzly charging and you
    want to blow your brins out, I'd go with the time tested
    manstopper, .45 ACP

    WHat the heck cartridge is a Tokarov chmbered for?
    the 9mm Mak? the wanna be 9mm LUger?

    Randall
     
  7. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    7.62x25. ^^
     
  8. MDG1976

    MDG1976 Member

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    Billy is right. A 45 will only enrage a grizzly even more. it may be effective against a cat, however, with the right ammo
     
  9. Frightener 88

    Frightener 88 Member

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    The Tokarev is typically chambered in 7.62x25. Which has excellent penetration. They can also be had in 9mm, but Im sure the OP is asking about the more potent round.
     
  10. cerberus65

    cerberus65 Member

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    Bring salt and pepper. If you're going to feed the bears you might as well make yourself tasty. :D
     
  11. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Get something non-expanding for the .45, not a +P defense load. Buffalo Bore's FNFMJ, maybe.

    And use that on Black Bears, not Brown.:)
     
  12. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    For Grizzly, I'm thinking "40"

    As in a 40MM Bofors Cannon...

    For Mountain Lion, maybe a .45...NOT Grizzly Bear

    There is a reason that the "Scientific Latin" name for Grizzly has the world Horribilus (sp??) in it.
     
  13. EnsignJimmy

    EnsignJimmy Member

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    For the grizzly: Whichever one you're better at emptying the magazine into a small, ragged hole with. They're both absolutely lousy bear guns, so you'd might as well pick the one you can empty into the charging grizzly faster. If you're going to have a bear beat you to death with your own leg, you'd might as well go out with the knowledge that you filled him full of lead first. :D

    For mountain lion, go with the .45 ACP.
     
  14. makarovnik

    makarovnik Member

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    The russians say 7.62x25
     
  15. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    It's like asking, "What car should I use for stock car racing? My road-legal '89 mustang or my '91 camaro? And don't tell me I need a purpose-built car that's more appropriate, because I don't have one."

    Doesn't matter whether or not you have one, it's still what you need. If you carry that .45 or Tokarev for bears, you will want to remove the front sight. (So it will hurt less when he ....shoves it up inside you.)
     
  16. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    If you pick either of those, use FMJ or the like.
     
  17. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Well, Bomber or Pony class, maybe...

    Never mind...:D
     
  18. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    Out of the two you offered, I would take the Tokarev 7.62x25.

    The 45acp is great against personnel, but basically sucks as a woods gun. You want deep penetration for the woods. Even with FMJ, I am betting that the Tok will penetrate +50% more than the 45acp... easily.

    Honestly, neither of them would remotely inspire confidence in Grizzly country.


    ...
     
  19. Retro

    Retro Member

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    Thanks for the inputs. I don't intend to hunt or confront grizzlies with those 2 calibers, just that there are rumors of recent sporadic sightings of grizzlies in the 100 mile radious where I hike.

    Just wanted to decide which of the two pistols to carry while hiking. I highly doubt that I will actually run into a grizzlie. Mt. Lions, however, are quite common in my area.

    I am also leaning towards Tokarev round:

    Taken from Cheaperthandirt catalog:

    .45 ACP FMJ 853 fps / 371 power

    Tokarev FMJ 1647 fps / 511 power

    .30 Carbine 1992 fps / 965 power

    Tokarev certainly will out-penetrate .45 ACP, and it is known to tumble when hitting soft tissue, inflicting a large .223-like exit wound. Hence, I was just curious to know if anyone had actually seen its power in action in the wild.

    R
     
  20. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    You can get a g20 for about $500, and a ruger gp100 for probably a similiar price.
     
  21. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    If I was limited to 45 ACP and 7.62X25, I'd go with the Tokarev. That 7.62 FMJ blows right through a Kevlar helmet so a bear sternum shouldn't be a problem. It's a monster round.

    For smaller, 2 legged problems, Wolf makes a great hollowpoint round. It makes big holes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  22. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    okay okay, change my vote to 7.62x25.
     
  23. jackpinesavages

    jackpinesavages member

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    You have 3 choices, really;

    a.) Don't hike there.

    b.) Trade one or both of those off for a .44mag.

    c.) Become the new term of defining "suicide by bear".

    Seriously. I haven't gone looking for grizz. when I'm backcountry hiking either, but guess what? They find me. Even with a .44 mag. I leave the area in a low crawl like my life depended on it. Because it did.
     
  24. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    Carry a 54 cal BP rifle and a Bowie worked sometimes for the mtn men.
     
  25. -v-

    -v- Member

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    Well, I'll throw mine in. 7.62x25, but Bear Spray might be the better alternative as a last-resort thing. As we all know evasion (versus big things that want to eat you) is the best defense, everything else is a backup when that fails.
     
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