For the 338 fans...

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by mshootnit, Aug 2, 2022.

  1. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    I guess it fills a notch in their lineup with that 6 lug mountain rifle concept. For years people banged on them for double radius shoulders, these new RPMs are regular shoulder, and no belt.
     
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  2. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Well it does leave a mark at both ends!

    I get the .338s better ballistics over distance due to the higher BC, but I'd have thought they could squeeze more out of it.
     
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  3. usaral63

    usaral63 Member

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    The only .338 I own is a BAR lightweight. Shoots quite accurately, kicks like hell from a bench. Mostly I've ran 225 gr. max loads with 4350 as propellent. Got a fairly large batch of 250 Sierras when I got the rifle, but truly even those 225 accubonds are more than enough for the few times I put that piece to work. Guess you could refer to it as a 'dreamin'' gun.....something I'd pack along if I ever got to go back to Alaska.........and on that point I'd note that the commentary on the slight difference between the .30's and the .338s pales in my mind when I think of the times I walked a grizzly up by accident or the time I found that pie pan sized foot print in thick alder when it'd been raining for hours and that print was dry!!! I had an '06 and wished it'd been a .577.......maybe bigger. Got out of there less incident, but I am here to tell you that the .338 is one hulluva round and way well worth consideration....that said I'd avoid that rebated rim Weatherby like the plague...........turn that boat over and that unobtainable ammo is gone...had that happen with my M/70 '06! Try to find that Weatherby round at the next country store!
     
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  4. robin banks

    robin banks Member

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    you would compare a 220 gr bullet going 2550 fps from a 06 which is barely under a 338 to a 55 gr bullet from a 223 compared to a 175 gr bullet from a 280?
     
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  5. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    no it isn’t, and no I wouldn’t

    A 338 win mag will push a 275 grain bullet to 2550 so “barely” in not an apt descriptor of the difference. It is too easy to follow the logic of if X cartridge is good, then Y cartridge must be good enough because it’s only 20% less. Well if Y is good enough then surely Z is good enough because it’s only 20% less, and so on. Differences matter and they can’t be dismissed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  6. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    Anyone who has read my posts knows that I use a 338-06 for hunting using 180 grain AccuBond bullets at about 2800 fps. It makes a really good hunting rifle and for me it seems to be more effective than a 30-06 which I also use. I took a close look at the 338 RMP in the Weatherby rifle with a 20 inch barrel and it looks like a really good package. Neat and pretty and intended for a wealthy hunter looking for a new mouse trap. That rifle was intended for hunters who have a lot of money and don't mind spending it on a new marketing idea to be carried in the mountains a few times and then retired to a gun cabinet. For all practical purposes they could have chambered their rifle for a 338 Federal, However, the 338 RPM is a dandy looking cartridge in a dandy looking expensive rifle. I can see a fishing guide in Alaska carrying the rifle for safety around camp. Even at my age I don't mind carrying a 8 pound rifle so it would not be something I would buy. I currently reload for five cartridges and I sure don't need another one.
     
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  7. robin banks

    robin banks Member

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    not that it matters but in the hornady manual with the 338-06 you can easily get 3000 fps. you can get 2800 fps with a 30-06 180 gr which has a higher SD and BC then 338 bullets of the same weight. to me that was always the trouble with the short fat 338 bullets
     
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  8. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    This is just me, but two figures I don't loose sleep over are BC and SD.

    A high BC advantage really kicks in at extended ranges that I just don't plan on shooting game at, and SD doesn't take into account bullet construction, which IMHO counts more than simply dividing weight by diameter squared.

    There's also something to be said for frontal diameter, which hardly ever gets brought up in these discussions.

    Maybe now that we've moved beyond just cup and core, there are better ways to estimate potential effectiveness. Here's a pretty good article that's worth considering when it comes to the value of SD.

    https://www.fieldandstream.com/guns/sectional-density-bullet-penetration-truths/
     
  9. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    Yes, I know I can get higher velocity with the 338-06 and all I need to do is add more powder, but the trade off is accuracy and recoil. A 180 grain bullet with a MV of 2800 fps out of a 22 inch barrel is really fun to shoot in a 8 pound rifle and it works good on big deer and hogs. There are no problems with a 338 180 grain bullet and the accuracy and killing power are unbelievable. A 180 grain 338 AccuBond is not all that short at 1.24 inches long and the higher velocity makes it very easy to hit with at 300 yards. If I wanted more killing power I would use a 210 grain Partition which is more like a 180 grain bullet out of a 30-06..
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
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  10. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed on both accounts. SD was a lot more important back in that days when all soft point bullets were thin jacketed cup and core. With bonded core and monolithic and solid shank etc etc. SD has become way less important.
     
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  11. robin banks

    robin banks Member

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    a while ago Finn Aagard and Phil Shoemaker did penetration tests using many things even big domestic pigs and their tons of experience in shooting big tough game. they found a 220 gr bullet out of a 30-06 came in second place barely beaten by the 375 H&H. so SD does come into play for tough game. I realize most people dont hunt that type of game or need that ultimate penetration but it is there if needed. I dont know what to think anymore when people say SD and BC dont count as well as other statements cause look at the maniacal craze over the 6.5 creedmore (or less) with its high BC and SD. then you got the magnum crowd . I guess it takes all sorts
     
  12. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    IMHO these days construction trumps SD

    Extreme example:

    .308 220 Solid VS .308 220 Cup and Core bullet. Both with have the exact same SD...

    Less extreme examples take a look at Barnes hunting bullets VS anything bonded. Again you'll find the same SDs, but a very different approach to bullet construction which will greatly impact penetration. You'll also find a chitload of lighter, lower SD monolithic bullets penetrating a heck of a lot deeper than their heavier, higher SD, cup and core counterparts.

    SD also doesn't take into account the effect of impact velocity on expansion, which also effects penetration.

    SD plays a role when comparing bullets of the exact same construction and even then there's other variables that come into play.

    Like H&H said:

     
  13. robin banks

    robin banks Member

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    you dont think those two guys who are ultimate professionals took that into account? you want to compare premium partition or solid copper bullets to cup and core? would not the 220 gr 06 premium bullet gain from that construction? sure new tech bullets hugely helped short fat bullets but they also helped the bullets that had high SD
     
  14. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    I agree with the bolded, but I disagree that simply quoting a high SD is the be "all/end all" it used to be.

    I'm actually not comparing....simply stating a fact. Two identical weight bullets in the same caliber have the exact same SD. It's the bullets construction that has a greater effect on penetration. (Which is the gist of the article I posted)

    So stating that a 220 grn .308 bullet has a greater SD than a 220grn .338 bullet (a fact), and therefore greater penetration without taking into account the bullets construction is sort of antiquated thinking because the construction is a huge variable that simple SDs don't take into account.

    That lesser SD .338 bullet could be a monolithic VS the .308 Cup and core, or the .308 220 could be a Berger hunting bullet that's designed to:

    So in this example (Berger) the higher SD .308 bullet is actually designed to penetrate less, than the short fat .338 bullet.

    Which is a long winded way, over multiple posts, to say why I don't sweat SD numbers.

    YMMV
     
  15. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Yawn......!

    About 10yrs ago I got a “fire sale” deal on a Ruger M77 MkII Hawkeye “African“ in .375Ruger.
    That ended my fascination with anything in .338”.
    I had my Interarms MkX returned to .30/06 with original barrel replaced. .338/06 barrel stored....

    I still have two Marlin .338ME’s but they’re too valuable to hunt with now...
    Since I got the big Ruger, even the .300RUM sits in the closet!

    Truth be known, a .30/30 is more than adequate for all the hunting I’ll likely ever do from now on.
     
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  16. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    New link from Weatherby on the 338 RPM

     
  17. KansasTrapper77

    KansasTrapper77 Member

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    Local pawn has a sporterized P17 I’m tempted to buy and convert to .338-06.
     
  18. Peakbagger46

    Peakbagger46 Member

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    Frontal diameter DOES matter and isn’t the simple question of “finger nail” thickness you assert. Where do you get your experience, from whitetail and black bear hunting?? Some places have bigger critters (and better geometry knowledge).
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2022
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