For those who choose a shotgun over a carbine for defense:

[mljdeckard]

I'm not sure what you mean by "use a carbine". What is it you think carbine-trained people understand that shotgun users don't?

I would consider myself carbine-trained. I'm in the process of retiring from army intelligence. My primary HD gun is a VR80 shotgun.

No matter how effective a good 5.56 defensive round is, I just think buckshot is better.

 

[Will Munny]

At no point did I ever ever claim increased hit probability. You’re arguing with a strawman. I said both require the same degree of aim, and since they do I will choose the one with greater incapacitation potential.

No straw-man, increased hit probability is a frequently cited benefit of shotguns that does not exist in a home defense setting. My response is not strictly limited to your points, so feel free to consider that portion not directed to you.

 

[Will Munny]

He takes cover behind you sofa and aims at you. You fire your shotgun loaded with 00 buck shot. The sofa takes the nostalgia damage.

I'm going to wager that 00 buck will go through most sofas and badly injure anyone it hits on the other side.

 

[dweis]

I'm going to wager that 00 buck will go through most sofas and badly injure anyone it hits on the other side.[/QUOTE

It might very well do so depending on factors like thickness of the padding and fabric. But a 9mm will go through a washing machine. Shotguns with pellets make up for inaccuracy do to fast moving/distant targets. In home defense accuracy is critical to protect others. It’s a choice. I pick 9mm handgun

 

[Will Munny]

In a home defense setting penetration is very much a double edged sword, and while there may be instances where shooting through a washing machine helps, there will be many instances where that kind of penetration is a serious problem for innocent bystanders. Suffice to say it is situation dependent.

 

[mljdeckard]

In a home defense setting penetration is very much a double edged sword, and while there may be instances where shooting through a washing machine helps, there will be many instances where that kind of penetration is a serious problem for innocent bystanders. Suffice to say it is situation dependent.

Here's the problem, and conclusion I have come to.

Many things MAY happen. A bullet MIGHT go through walls you didn't want it to. This is why we work to mitigate risk. Plan your house in a tactical way. Don't put beds behind likely lanes of fire. Consider putting hard barriers (like bricks) in the walls of high-risk positions. If you have the means, build with brick, to minimize the risk of hitting your neighbor's house. Or move to a locale where your neighbors are not very close. You can minimize the risk, you cannot eliminate it.

But when you have mitigated risk, you have to accept it and continue. When you are fighting for your life, you need the most effective option. You NEED the most powerful, destructive option you can handle. Even though the risk has not been eliminated, you are still going to fight to survive. So if I line up a threat, I am going to hit them with #4 buck until they are no longer a threat. Slugs might be better....but more dangerous. Defensive 5.56 (which I still keep and train with) might penetrate less than pistol bullets, but it's less effective than buckshot. Also, the gun I am running now (an Armscor VR80) runs almost exactly like my AR. But when he hits, it hits a LOT harder. Just overall, it comes out as a better option for my situation.

 

[herrwalther]

Feels like we just did one of these threads. Where the camps of shotguns, carbine, PCC, handgun, flashbang and a tomahawk while wearing a mankini are pretty well defined.

Use what you have, train as much as you can with it. No bad guy is going to sit up after being shot with 3 rounds of 5.56 and say "You should have used 12ga" before passing out from blood loss or dying in your living room.

 

[ExtremeSquared]

A 12 gauge 3.5” magnum 18 pellet 00 buckshot load makes a convincing argument. The Benelli Supernova Tactical can use that shell and is set up for social work.

I am bigger than most people here, own a supernova, and have shot those exact rounds.
They would be my last choice for anything practical. They are not fun.

 

[Robert]

We've done a few of these recently. Again, uses what you see fit and are best with. Allow others the same...