6. Way too many people walking around my country prison with 9mm, .380, and .32 bullet wound scars.
I have taken courses offered by his group, I have his training tapes, and I know he mostly carries a 9x19 these days so I looked up the date of the quoted book:The OP may genuinely want to hear the arguments so he can better decide if 9mm is the gun he wants to carry?
I am not saying 9mm is not adequate, but I'll toss out that Gabriel Suarez in his book, The Tactical Pistol, Advanced Gunfighting Concepts and Techniques, says, "select a caliber/cartridge that has been proven to succeed most of the time on human beings. Like or not, this means the big, slow bullet of the .44/.45 school. Carry the biggest gun you can control. (Page 65)
Sounds like you want to start a debate over caliber wars.
In past there were certainly caliber wars.Is there a definition for "caliber war"? I don't think so. I typically see the term invoked when someone doesn't like a caliber discussion.
If I say 9mm versus 45 that is the old standard for someone wanting to stifle that discussion with claim of "caliber war".
It wouldn't surprise me if I said I think any caliber below 9mm deficient for my self defense for somebody to incorrectly invoke claim of "caliber war".
The most gross misuse of the term is if I say "5 rounds aint enough" (clearly capacity not caliber) some snub advocate incorrectly call that "caliber war".
In summary, I think that term undefined and nonsensical.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to 9mm being sufficient, I think it is. However, if we go with what people think that is problematic because some may think 25 acp sufficient.
Let me define what sufficient is: At least 12'' penetration and consistent expansion. 22/25/ (99.9% of 32 HP) and all FMJ fail that criteria, 45 FMJ included.
If some people don't like the clear gel used by Lucky Gunner, okay lets go with manufacturer data:
https://winchesterle.com/-/media/Pr...gun-Bullet-Barrier-Testing-Protocol_2016.ashx
380 Ranger fails to meet 12'' penetration in manufacturer testing of bare gel and heavy clothed gel. Do I want to bet my life on 380? Nope.
38 Special Ranger fails to meet 12'' penetration in manufacturer testing bare & clothed gel and as previously noted 5-6 rounds is capacity deficient.
9mm Ranger in 127+P+ and 147 versions meet our desired criteria of at least 12'' penetration and consistent expansion.
Comparing with some of the 40 S&W loads, we see performance of the 127+P+ 9mm to be essentially on par.
9mm in its best HP loadings is sufficient for self defense, I carry it.
22lr/32/380 - Nope I'm not betting my life on that.
9mm/40/45 FMJ - Nope. We don't settle for FMJ (45 acp included) because we can get HP that performs better; well, not if in NJ then 45 FMJ.
What helps even more is hitting your target. That is being able to do it under reactive conditions and when ambient light levels may be low.First, pick the right 9mm bullet. Helps if ammo is +P.
After the famous 1986 FBI Miami shootout occurred, there was a lot of research done & the 10mm & 40 S&W were born. Bullets design was changed.
If you google the shootout, i am sure more can be read. https://www.police1.com/police-prod...-officer-involved-shootings-Ff0sxVITdSX8iAn7/
A FMJ would have given them the penetration if they think that was what they needed. Hitting the humerus would likely stop many expanding lead core bullets.The round severed Platt’s brachial artery, passing through the arm into his chest and almost entirely through his right lung. Doctors later determined that this round was not survivable. However, the round stopped just short of entering Platt’s heart/aorta, only penetrating his torso about six or seven inches.
In past there were certainly caliber wars.
The OP may genuinely want to hear the arguments so he can better decide if 9mm is the gun he wants to carry?
I am not saying 9mm is not adequate, but I'll toss out that Gabriel Suarez in his book, The Tactical Pistol, Advanced Gunfighting Concepts and Techniques, says, "select a caliber/cartridge that has been proven to succeed most of the time on human beings. Like or not, this means the big, slow bullet of the .44/.45 school. Carry the biggest gun you can control. (Page 65)
In the working world of the police and military the 9x19 is what is favored.Okay, lets say there were, it was a battle between 9mm/40/45.
...................
There is no more caliber war, 9mm won; so now we only have caliber discussions.
Just another repetition of an endless gun social media theme. My takeaway is from James Reeves on TTFB. Carry a SW Model 29 in case of the moose uprising!
Sounds like you want to start a debate over caliber wars.
Most combat pistol calibers are inadequate if a one shot kill for a center of mass shot is expected to always put down a human target.
A tight pattern of 00 Buck at close range COM shot is more dependable, but hard to conceal and carry about.