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For those who say Fred Thompson is anti-gun

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Redneck with a 40, Jul 7, 2007.

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  1. Redneck with a 40

    Redneck with a 40 Member

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    I found this on national review online, doesn't sound like an anti-gunner to me.:neener:

    Signs of Intelligence?

    By Fred Thompson

    One of the things that's got to be going through a lot of peoples' minds now is how one man with two handguns, that he had to reload time and time again, could go from classroom to classroom on the Virginia Tech campus without being stopped. Much of the answer can be found in policies put in place by the university itself.

    Virginia, like 39 other states, allows citizens with training and legal permits to carry concealed weapons. That means that Virginians regularly sit in movie theaters and eat in restaurants among armed citizens. They walk, joke, and rub shoulders everyday with people who responsibly carry firearms — and are far safer than they would be in San Francisco, Oakland, Detroit, Chicago, New York City, or Washington, D.C., where such permits are difficult or impossible to obtain.

    The statistics are clear. Communities that recognize and grant Second Amendment rights to responsible adults have a significantly lower incidence of violent crime than those that do not. More to the point, incarcerated criminals tell criminologists that they consider local gun laws when they decide what sort of crime they will commit, and where they will do so.

    Still, there are a lot of people who are just offended by the notion that people can carry guns around. They view everybody, or at least many of us, as potential murderers prevented only by the lack of a convenient weapon. Virginia Tech administrators overrode Virginia state law and threatened to expel or fire anybody who brings a weapon onto campus.

    In recent years, however, armed Americans — not on-duty police officers — have successfully prevented a number of attempted mass murders. Evidence from Israel, where many teachers have weapons and have stopped serious terror attacks, has been documented. Supporting, though contrary, evidence from Great Britain, where strict gun controls have led to violent crime rates far higher than ours, is also common knowledge.

    So Virginians asked their legislators to change the university's "concealed carry" policy to exempt people 21 years of age or older who have passed background checks and taken training classes. The university, however, lobbied against that bill, and a top administrator subsequently praised the legislature for blocking the measure.

    The logic behind this attitude baffles me, but I suspect it has to do with a basic difference in worldviews. Some people think that power should exist only at the top, and everybody else should rely on "the authorities" for protection.

    Despite such attitudes, average Americans have always made up the front line against crime. Through programs like Neighborhood Watch and Amber Alert, we are stopping and catching criminals daily. Normal people tackled "shoe bomber" Richard Reid as he was trying to blow up an airliner. It was a truck driver who found the D.C. snipers. Statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that civilians use firearms to prevent at least a half million crimes annually.

    When people capable of performing acts of heroism are discouraged or denied the opportunity, our society is all the poorer. And from the selfless examples of the passengers on Flight 93 on 9/11 to Virginia Tech professor Liviu Librescu, a Holocaust survivor who sacrificed himself to save his students earlier this week, we know what extraordinary acts of heroism ordinary citizens are capable of.

    Many other universities have been swayed by an anti-gun, anti-self defense ideology. I respect their right to hold those views, but I challenge their decision to deny Americans the right to protect themselves on their campuses — and then proudly advertise that fact to any and all.

    Whenever I've seen one of those "Gun-free Zone" signs, especially outside of a school filled with our youngest and most vulnerable citizens, I've always wondered exactly who these signs are directed at. Obviously, they don't mean much to the sort of man who murdered 32 people just a few days ago.

    — Fred Thompson is an actor and former United States senator from Tennessee.

    © ABC
     
  2. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

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    So what? He talks the talk, so does Guiliani:

    And he's one of the biggest gun grabbers around.

    Besides, it's primarily about protection from your own government, not protection from common criminals.
     
  3. Matt King

    Matt King Member

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    Exactly. That is what so many politicians don't understand.
     
  4. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Fred Thompson is the most pro-RKBA candidate that has a snowball's chance of winning. Period.
     
  5. FeebMaster

    FeebMaster Member

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    They understand.
     
  6. Matt King

    Matt King Member

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    This could be true. If so, that would make it all the more scary.
     
  7. C. Rabbit

    C. Rabbit Member

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    What the...? Are you honestly comparing Thompson to Guliani?!

    In that article he said what most of THR said after V Tech. What's not to like?

    CR
     
  8. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    He's not Ron Paul ... and to many folk on this board if Ron Paul is not our next President, the Republic is officially dead.
     
  9. cbsbyte

    cbsbyte Member

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    I would love to see the faces of the RPbot once Hillary is sworn in as President. It would be comical.
     
  10. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    I think Thompson is great on guns. The Lautenburg Ammendment was a misguided attempt to help the defenseless but it was understandable even if foolish.

    It is his other anti-freedom viewpoints I do not like.
     
  11. samtechlan

    samtechlan Member

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    How does voting for Paul in a Republican PRIMARY give Hillary the presidency?
    Do you understand the difference between a primary and a general election?
     
  12. Matt King

    Matt King Member

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    The same guy that voted for the McCain-Feingold campaign finance bill?

    The same guy who thinks that we were right to invade Iraq?

    The same guy who wants to legislate what you do in the bedroom?

    The same guy that voted to continue affirmative action?

    The same guy, who according to Gun Owner's of America, voted fourteen times for anti-gun legislation?

    The same guy that in 1997 voted to grant amnesty to one million illegal aliens from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Haiti?


    Fred Thompson will definitely not be getting my vote.
     
  13. samtechlan

    samtechlan Member

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    Can you rely on Thompson's word?

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-thompson7jul07,0,54260.story?coll=la-home-center



    Thompson lobbied for abortion-rights group, it says
    A spokesman for the GOP presidential hopeful says he did no such work. An ex-colleague calls the denial 'bizarre.'
    By Michael Finnegan
    Times Staff Writer

    July 7, 2007

    Fred D. Thompson, who is campaigning for president as an antiabortion Republican, accepted an assignment from a family-planning group to lobby the first Bush White House to ease a controversial abortion restriction, according to a 1991 document and several people familiar with the matter.

    A spokesman for the former Tennessee senator denied that Thompson did the lobbying work. But the minutes of a 1991 board meeting of the National Family Planning and Reproductive Health Assn. say that the group hired Thompson that year.

    His task was to urge the administration of President George H. W. Bush to withdraw or relax a rule that barred abortion counseling at clinics that received federal money, according to the records and to people who worked on the matter.

    The abortion "gag rule" was then a major political flashpoint. Lobbying against the rule would have placed Thompson at odds with the antiabortion movement that he is now trying to rally behind his expected declaration of a presidential bid.

    Thompson spokesman Mark Corallo adamantly denied that Thompson worked for the family planning group. "Fred Thompson did not lobby for this group, period," he said in an e-mail.

    In a telephone interview, he added: "There's no documents to prove it, there's no billing records, and Thompson says he has no recollection of it, says it didn't happen." In a separate interview, John H. Sununu, the White House official whom the family planning group wanted to contact, said he had no memory of the lobbying and doubted it took place.

    But Judith DeSarno, who was president of the family planning association in 1991, said Thompson lobbied for the group for several months.

    Minutes from the board's meeting of Sept. 14, 1991 — a copy of which DeSarno gave to The Times — say: "Judy [DeSarno] reported that the association had hired Fred Thompson Esq. as counsel to aid us in discussions with the administration" on the abortion counseling rule.

    Former Rep. Michael D. Barnes (D-Md.), a colleague at the lobbying and law firm where Thompson worked, said that DeSarno had asked him to recommend someone for the lobbying work and that he had suggested Thompson. He said it was "absolutely bizarre" for Thompson to deny that he lobbied against the abortion counseling rule.

    "I talked to him while he was doing it, and I talked to [DeSarno] about the fact that she was very pleased with the work that he was doing for her organization," said Barnes. "I have strong, total recollection of that. This is not something I dreamed up or she dreamed up. This is fact."

    DeSarno said that Thompson, after being hired, reported to her that he had held multiple conversations about the abortion rule with Sununu, who was then the White House chief of staff and the president's point man on the rule.

    Thompson kept her updated on his progress in telephone conversations and over meals at Washington restaurants, including dinner at Galileo and lunch at the Monocle, she said. At one of the meals, she recalled, Thompson told her that Sununu had just given him tickets for a VIP tour of the White House for a Thompson son and his wife.

    "It would be an odd thing for me to construct that thing out of whole cloth," DeSarno said. "It happened, and I think it's quite astonishing they're denying it."

    Sununu said in a telephone interview: "I don't recall him ever lobbying me on that at all. I don't think that ever happened. In fact, I know that never happened." He added that he had "absolutely no idea" whether Thompson had met with anybody else at the White House, but said it would have been a waste of time, given the president's opposition to abortion rights.

    In response to Sununu's denial, DeSarno said Thompson "owes NFPRHA a bunch of money" if he never talked to Sununu as he said he had.

    At the time, Thompson was a lobbyist and lawyer "of counsel" to the Washington firm of Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn.

    DeSarno said the family planning association paid the firm for Thompson's work. Marc L. Fleischaker, chairman of Arent Fox, declined to comment.

    Corallo, the spokesman for Thompson, was asked Friday about the board minutes and the five people who said they recalled Thompson accepting the lobbying assignment. He responded in an e-mail, saying that Thompson "may have been consulted by one of [his] firm's partners who represented this group in 1991."

    Corallo said it was "not unusual for one lawyer on one side of an issue to be asked to give advice to colleagues for clients who engage in conduct or activities with which they personally disagree."

    Any work that Thompson did to challenge the abortion rule could complicate his appeals to conservatives in the contest for the Republican presidential nomination. He reportedly plans to join the race this month.

    For weeks, Thompson has tried to pick up support from religious conservatives dissatisfied with the top GOP White House contenders, some of whom have backed abortion rights. In a videotaped message to the National Right to Life Convention in Kansas City last month, Thompson said the group's issues were "ever more profound to me as the years go by."

    A senator from December 1994 to January 2003, Thompson voted along antiabortion lines, but his statements have occasionally raised questions about his attitude toward the cause.

    On Fox News last month, he was asked why he checked a box on a questionnaire in his 1994 Senate campaign beside a statement saying that abortion "should be legal in all circumstances for the first three months."

    "I don't remember that box," Thompson replied. "You know, it was a long time ago, and I don't know if I filled it out or my staff, based on what they thought my position was, filled it out."

    The Tennessean newspaper reported that Thompson, when filling out a 1996 Christian Coalition survey, marked himself as "opposed" to a constitutional amendment protecting "the sanctity of human life."

    The newspaper said he included a handwritten notation saying: "I do not believe abortion should be criminalized. This battle will be won in the hearts and souls of the American people."

    In recent weeks, Thompson has described himself as fundamentally "pro-life," saying the issue has "meant a little more to me" since seeing the sonogram of his now-3-year-old daughter.

    Best known for playing a district attorney on NBC's "Law and Order," Thompson worked as a part-time lobbyist over nearly three decades, both before and after his Senate service. His clients included a General Electric aircraft-engine maker, Westinghouse Electric Corp. and the Equitas insurance company.

    DeSarno and others said the family planning group hired Thompson shortly after the Supreme Court upheld the "gag rule" in 1991.

    That ruling led to a protracted tussle between Bush and Congress. The rule was eliminated in 1993 by President Clinton on his third day in office.

    In addition to Barnes and DeSarno, three other people said they recalled Thompson lobbying against the rule on behalf of the family planning association.

    Susan Cohen, a member of the association's board of directors in 1991, said in reference to DeSarno and Thompson: "We were looking, of course, for a Republican who might have some inroads to the White House at that time, and so that's how she came upon contacting him."

    Said Bill Hamilton, who then directed the Washington office of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, a group that was DeSarno's main ally in lobbying on the abortion counseling rule: "I definitely recall her reaching out to [Thompson] and engaging him in some way, and trying to squeeze the White House through him."

    Sarah L. Szanton, who worked for DeSarno as director of government relations for the family planning association, agreed that Thompson "consulted on our behalf against the gag rule."

    "I remember that he did it," Szanton said. "I just knew he was part of the good fight."

    The National Family Planning and Reproductive Health Assn. is a Washington nonprofit organization that represents family planning clinics and other groups. It advocates "reproductive freedom" and broad access to birth control.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  14. pcosmar

    pcosmar member

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    Empty words.
    He will continue on the path chosen by his *backers.

    * Bush Camp/CFR
     
  15. cbsbyte

    cbsbyte Member

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    All I am saying is that Hillary will probably be our next President do to the fact Americans are pissed off about many issues which the Republicans have caused or exasperated.
     
  16. alligator94

    alligator94 Member

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    There are no good politicians. Its all about choosing the lesser of the two evils.
     
  17. 71Commander

    71Commander Member

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    Thompson for President

    RPbots.:neener::cuss:
     
  18. telomerase

    telomerase Member

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    +1

    It's all about using our limited resources to make the world better. That doesn't necessarily mean that you support Hitler to oppose Stalin (or vice versa... I've known European refugees who had tried to pick the lesser of the evils during WWII, and most regretted it afterwards). There's no point to contributing to most major-party Presidential candidates; their success or failure depends on their backing by the class of those privileged to print money and give it to their friends... and that ain't anybody on THR.

    Paul isn't really a politician, which is why he frightens the sheeple. He's never going to be supported by the Republican poobahs... heck, the Republican party gerrymandered him out of his old district and spent a bundle trying to get rid of him in the primary. He's never going to get favorable coverage on FOX or CNN.

    That's why there's some point to supporting him. Those of you who say that they will only support someone "electable" are saying that you will only support someone who opposes your values with their votes in Congress, but gives lip service to them during the campaign season.
     
  19. GoSlash27

    GoSlash27 member

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    The selection in the primary has a huge impact in the general election. A well right-of-center group picks their well right-of-center candidate with the mistaken notion that the rest of the country thinks like them. Ditto for the well left-of-center.
    Then they foist these out-of-the-mainstream loonies on the public and see which one is grudgingly accepted.
    I tell you now that if you go that route you may as well get ready for Hillary, because this cycle the general public hates Republicans. Somebody like Thompson doesn't have a fart's chance in a gale of seeing the inside of the oval office this cycle.
    Why? Because he's really just another Dubya, just with a less-vacuous smirk, a cigar, and a bimbo.
    Read the papers. 28% <---there's your problem! If you seriously think people are going to line up around the block to vote for "4 more years" (and rest assured, that's exactly how the left will paint him), you're sadly mistaken.
    If Fred D. Thompson wins the primary, he will get his head handed to him in the general.

    OTOH, if Paul wins the primary all bets are off. Not only can he successfully defend himself from the Bush fallout, he can actually use it to his advantage.
    Ex.: RP to HC in a debate "I didn't vote for your stupid war and I warned you it was a bad idea, so why did you authorize it?"
    Hillary's "base" actually likes Ron Paul more than they like her.

    Bottom line: Ron Paul is the only Republican candidate that can win the general election this year. Bonus for us that he happens to be principled and about the most staunch defender of RKBA on the planet.
     
  20. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Thompson is not a conservative.

    He voted for Campaign Finance Reform, Medicare Reform, and the Patriot Act.

    These things have increased the size and intrusiveness of government, limited civil rights, and expanded welfare programs.

    These are liberal ideas, not conservative ones.
     
  21. elrod

    elrod Member

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    Please remember, If you choose between the lesser of two evils, you still end up with EVIL:fire::evil::fire:
     
  22. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Well said, GoSlash. A little bit of common sense goes a long ways. Paul *can* steal a lot of Dem votes.

    Biker
     
  23. telomerase

    telomerase Member

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    And that would be very important... if the Republican leadership cared about beating Democrats instead of keeping the money coming for ADM et al. But they clearly don't, which is why Gingrich among others has put so much energy into getting rid of Paul.
     
  24. RobTzu

    RobTzu Member

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    A nice article is meaningless. It is the voting record and policies that do. Like the Guiliani reference, he said he supports the 2nd amendment then grabs everything he can get his grubby little hands on. I am not saying Fred Thompson would (I know little about him) but one article is meaningless, and so is most things that come out of their mouths.
     
  25. 71Commander

    71Commander Member

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    RP and his 4% polling popularity will be gone soon enough.;)
     
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