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For those who say there's no place for EBRs.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by hso, Feb 24, 2010.

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  1. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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  2. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    Great video!
     
  3. ATBackPackin

    ATBackPackin Member

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    +1 Great video.

    It's nice to see a man of that generation break the stereotypical boundaries and be open minded. I have spoken to some old timers who would never consider hunting with an AR and while I respect their wishes, I have never had anyone give me a valid reason why? I guess some people are just set in their ways and change is not a good thing. I could think of hundreds of clichés to say, but I think it boils down to "you don't have to do it or even like it, but don't berate someone else for doing it unless it's going to hurt you in some way."

    Can't we all just get along? Lol, sorry I had to say it.

    Shawn
     
  4. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    After messing with all manner of gun stuff for nearly seventy years, I've formed a few opinions. ("Aw, gee, Art; really?")

    I don't particularly care for the aesthetics of the EBRs, but so what? So I prefer blue steel and walnut. So what? What does that have to do with much of anything except where I put my money? Wily Coyote doesn't care if I use my AR15 or my Ruger 77 to medicate him with a .223 pill. The paper target doesn't care if the sub-MOA group comes from either rifle.

    Bambi won't care if it's a 7.62x39 softpoint from an SKS or a similar bullet from a thutty-thutty.

    I had a really sweet heavy-barrelled Swift that was guaranteed 3/8 MOA for five shots, as long as I did my part. I'm still impressed, however, by the sight-in for a Bushmaster Match Target. Five three-shot groups, with the interval between groups only that which was long enough to adjust the scope. I would up with five half-MOA groups. I don't think a feral cat could have said which rifle ruined his day.

    I dunno. There are all manner of uses for firearms--just as with any tool. And that's all any gun is: A tool. Folks who get all emotional about tools probably oughta rethink their grip on reality.

    Hey, I said I'm opinionated. :D
     
  5. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    :evil::evil:
     
  6. Ohio Gun Guy

    Ohio Gun Guy Member

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    I liked the video but must add that the 2nd amendment isnt just about hunting. I think they tried to stay away from not "Sporting" uses in their video........ On what they did cover, they did well, and offer a good argument without getting into the "Non-sporting" debate.
     
  7. wilkersk

    wilkersk Member

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    I think a little background might be warranted here:

    Here's the rest of that article:

    http://www.huntingsense.com/the-jim-zumbo-controversy/
     
  8. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Well it was put together by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. :D

    I think sometimes we tend to expect every organization even loosely related to shooting to be "be-all-end-all-no-compromise-RKBA/2A-defenders" ... sometimes it is just about the sport.
     
  9. Ohio Gun Guy

    Ohio Gun Guy Member

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    ^^^ Saw that....just saying.
     
  10. GMFWoodchuck

    GMFWoodchuck member

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    Folks who get all emotional about tools probably oughta rethink their grip on reality. ~ Art Eatman

    Words of wisdom.
     
  11. rattletrap1970

    rattletrap1970 Member

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    Umm, whats an EBR? We should try to curb the Abbreviations and acronyms until the jist of the question or story is established. Just my opinion.
     
  12. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    I think we should avoid using EBR (Evil Black Rifle) just as we avoid calling them Assault Weapons. They are neither, in most of our hands.

    Great video though! I have shared this with some of my family/friends who were on the fence.
     
  13. TexasBill

    TexasBill Member

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    I first hunted varmints with a genuine Colt AR-15 nearly 40 years ago. Never thought about using it for anything bigger because of the caliber. Wouldn't buy an AK-47 because it was a "Commie" gun. (Don't ask me to be consistent: I won't buy a gun made in Russia or China, but I am very happy with my guns from Germany and Italy.)

    I liked the NSSF piece but was more than a bit upset by what happened to Jim Zumbo. I think that's just plain wrong.

    Perhaps we all need to look in a mirror. Has our zeal for RKBA/2A made us forget about FOS/1A? Mr. Zumbo expressed an opinion. Last time I looked, that was also an inalienable right and one that our federal and state governments have made binding on everyone, something we're waiting to see if the Supreme Court is going to do for the Second Amendment. The scorched cats chorus disagreed, as is their inalienable right. Now, all of a sudden, Mr. Zumbo is a pariah cut off by Outdoor Life and his friends at Remington? Because he didn't goose-step to the party line? That's not just prior censorship, that's un-American.

    If we're so worried about one man's opinion about the suitability of a military-style rifle for hunting that we will cast him out for expressing it, what does that say about us? It says the antis have already won; we're on the defensive and we don't think we can prevail unless we present an absolutely united front of EBR-totin' parrots.
     
  14. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    Good Video that was well made and used Gray hair to drive home a Clear Point.
     
  15. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Evil Black Rifle is a term coined by the gun community, as a parody of all the absurd nomenclature invented by the media to describe different types of guns. I like the term, because it is demonstrably nonsensical (lifeless objects cannot be good or evil, as they have no will of their own) and funny to boot. :)
     
  16. gunsandreligion

    gunsandreligion Member

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    I thought it was Electronic bubbad Rifle.:D
     
  17. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    Call it what ever you want, Mr. Zumbo stepped on a lot of toes and frankly showed a whole hell of a lot of people how ignorant he is of the shooting sports. As the video says, most of our "sporting firearms" evolved from military arms just as the sporting AR has.

    Heck I'll take Zumbos statement and tweak it a bit here...

    Looks pretty damn stupid doesn't it.

    For extra kicks replace lever and bolt action with Black powder and Lever. Or Bolt and semi.

    That we don't take to kindly with being compared to terrorists maybe. Or maybe that we choose to have someone slightly more informed to listen to.
     
  18. Mikee Loxxer

    Mikee Loxxer Member

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    TexasBill,

    No one has ever advocated the government suppressing Mr. Zumbo's right to free expression. That is what the first amendment does, prevent the government from muzzling you.

    On the other hand Mr. Zumbo said "I say game departments should ban them from the praries [sic] and woods." This is advocating government restriction on the use of certain types of firearms for hunting.
     
  19. happygeek

    happygeek Member

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    The other thing about Zumbo is that it's not censorship if a magazine decides not to publish you because of reader response. No magazine publishes my writings, does that mean that I'm censored? Private companies are not bound by the 1st Amendment to give you a soapbox.
     
  20. Diamondback6

    Diamondback6 Member

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    On nomenclature, I prefer the term "Sport/Utility Weapon" myself... which also covers EBS's like the Saiga-12 and its descendant Abomination. (THR member-author reference FTW! LOL)
     
  21. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    If it wasn't for movies and incorrectly protraying guns, (like how "silencers" make the gun make next to no sound.) we wouldn't have these "evil assault rifle" bans and restrictions on things like surpressors.
     
  22. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    good video...

    but see my sig line to see what Zumbo taught me...
     
  23. navyretired 1

    navyretired 1 Member

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    Great vidio.
    Maybe a little more to tie civilian use in service rifle competion and training of citizen soldiers (Militia) tieing the 2 uses together. They showed it but didn't vocalize it well. Make the Gun grabbers like choke on it because they can't argue with the logic.
    I'd like to address the BS about the NRA. If they hadn't been there in 1968 the bleeding hearts would have gutted the rights of gun owners and hunters with GCA-68, and without NRA there would have no sunset clause on the assualt rifle and highcap magazine ban.
    The NRA are in Washington every day fighting for our rights, I too am sometimes conflicted about the comprimises they make and the infighting and power struggles within the NRA. They may not be perfect but They do fight every day for our rights.
    The problem with the politicians is they want to push the "we don't want the sporting and hunting rifles", well the 2A doesn't say anything about the right to shoot deer or the right to shoot skeet or the right to feed your family. Those are a given if the right to own and bear arms is never infringed.
     
  24. nowool

    nowool Member

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    Aw fior Crying out loud! Its about a gun as a tool.........pick your gun for what you expect!
     
  25. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    For those of you who are incapable of differentiating the NRA from the NSSF, I would strongly suggest that you run a Google search before posting what would appear to be a rather lengthy, though tremendously off-topic rant.

    This goes doubly so if you think that a discussion about a video meant to present a non-threatening introduction of AR-pattern rifles among traditional hunters should cater to your fantasies about fighting a revolution.

    We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.
     
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