Forget Sig already

[cfullgraf]

Well, I just bought a P238 HD -- stainless steel 380.

Hope I didn't get one of the recent crops of lemons.

The first year of production of the P238 around 2009 was full of lemons. The switch to a flat wire recoil spring was the main upgrade that made mine reliable. With mine, there was not enough room in the recoil spring cavity for the round wire spring. Under recoil, the spring would become coil bound, eventually plastically deform and bind up the pistol.

Sig also went through a couple of different magazine followers. I am not sure if Sig made any other major changes after the recoil spring.

During this time, folks tried Mustang springs and magazines. My P238 never worked reliably with those parts in the gun either.

Since about 2010, the P238 has pretty much been as reliable as a light switch.

Kind of back to the subject of the thread, I have two Sig M1911 pistols that have been reliable. I got them because I like M1911s and they are chambered in 40 S&W and 357 Sig. I can work on them if they had problems.

The escapade with the P238 has soured me on any other Sig pistols.

 

[cal44mag]

The first year of production of the P238 around 2009 was full lemons. The switch to a flat wire recoil spring was the main upgrade that made mine reliable. With mine, there was not enough room in the recoil spring cavity for the round wire spring. Under recoil, the spring would become coil bound, eventually plastically deform and bind up the pistol.

Sig also went through a couple of different magazine followers. I am not sure if Sig made any other major changes after the recoil spring.

During this time, folks tried Mustang springs and magazines. My P238 never worked reliably with those parts in the gun either.

Since about 2010, the P238 has pretty much been as reliable as a light switch.

Kind of back to the subject of the thread, I have two Sig M1911 pistols that have been reliable. I got them because I like M1911s and they are chambered in 40 S&W and 357 Sig. I can work on them if they had problems.

The escapade with the P238 has soured me on any other Sig pistols.

I'm impressed with the specs on the P365.

But it seems to be going through it's own "lemon" stage.

I figure I'll let other people be beta testers and help debug the design for another year or two before I buy one.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

For those interested since it was brought up, and if you're not caliber sensitive, Buds has the 2022 in 357sig for $378. The 9 is $455.

Still, a heck of a deal.

 

[JR24]

For those interested since it was brought up, and if you're not caliber sensitive, Buds has the 2022 in 357sig for $378. The 9 is $455.

Still, a heck of a deal.

Dang that's tempting in .357.

 

[Walkalong]

figure I'll let other people be beta testers and help debug the design for another year or two before I buy one.

You're welcome.

And if it breaks, I'll get Sig to fix it. I like it way too much to give up on it.

 

[Rock185]

I'm not the biggest fan of some of the stuff SIG has come out with in the last several years, and admit I've not owned any of the plastic framed guns, or 238, 938,etc. So I guess I've not been a beta tester on the new guns, except perhaps for the P210A. That being said, I've used the traditional SIGs since the '80s. I don't recall a part ever breaking, bending, cracking, deforming,etc. And I've never experienced malfunction issues with any of the 9MM, .357 SIG, .40 S&W or .45 ACP versions I've owned over all these years. So I guess I'm not ready to forget SIG just yet

 

[RA40]

The 2022 the "poorer person's Sig" has been pretty nice for the price point in the DA/SA configuration. Mine is in the 3K rounds range. That's a pretty nice price at $450 in 9. I like the 229 with SRT better but at 2.2X the price, this model carries enough of that Sig feel into the 2022.

 

[JO JO]

Sig as a company is growing with government contracts , they make handguns,rifles,ammo and optics , Sig has won another contract for the army to supply optics
https://www.sigsauer.com/press-rele...ected-us-army-squad-designated-marksman-rifle
They supply military and law enforcement and governments world wide , I would bet they are a much stronger company then say Colt,Remington,Savage and so on that are in or have
filed chapter 11 BK , weather we choose to buy their low end budget guns or not their higher end products is quality stuff. I do like Sig and do trust them I carried a P229 for years with
confidence it would do its job if needed ,

 

[340PD]

Heights were reasonable and the angle was extremely dangerous for anyone around. I'm glad they fixed it but their PR offering a upgrade while they were still advertising it as drop safe on their website was just silly.

You do understand if you drop a gun enough times from enough angles and enough heights, you will eventually get it to fail. Just me but I suspect one of the contract losers spent a great deal of time on a ladder.
BTW, my second P365 is in the safe. One from Mid March and one from early July.
With my long time dream being a semi auto that would hold ten rounds and be small enough to conceal on my person in a variety of positions and holsters,
this little powerhouse has met every one of my requirements.

 

[JR24]

You do understand if you drop a gun enough times from enough angles and enough heights, you will eventually get it to fail.

There are plenty of guns where this is not true. Glocks, for example. I this case it was an easy angle to conceive dropping the gun as well as a reasonable height, worse the barrel was up meaning the gun fires in the air no like... say a series 70 1911 firing when dropped on the barrel and inertia ramming the pin home.

Still during this Sig maintained ON THEIR WEBSITE that their trigger was perfectly drop safe without the trigger dongle, they advertised this as an advantage over the competition.

 

[340PD]

There are plenty of guns where this is not true. Glocks, for example. I this case it was an easy angle to conceive dropping the gun as well as a reasonable height, worse the barrel was up meaning the gun fires in the air no like... say a series 70 1911 firing when dropped on the barrel and inertia ramming the pin home.

Still during this Sig maintained ON THEIR WEBSITE that their trigger was perfectly drop safe without the trigger dongle, they advertised this as an advantage over the competition.

 

[zaitcev]

Still during this Sig maintained ON THEIR WEBSITE that their trigger was perfectly drop safe without the trigger dongle, they advertised this as an advantage over the competition.

Precisely. The worst thing about the P320 debacle was SIG lying about it. It's one thing to have the propaganda on the website, which was in hindsight ironically prescient, and having to delete it in shame. It's another thing to know about the problem and pretend it's not there. It didn't start because Youtubers were hitting guns with hammers. It started because the U.S. Army found that P320 was not drop safe during the trials. SIG went back and developed changes to make the military P320 safe. But in the same time, they did not stop selling unsafe P320s to civilians, and we only learned about the problem when enthusiasts examined internal parts of M17 and compared them to P320. Only then SIG admitted to the problem.

All guns have teething issues. Anyone remembers Remington R51? What a steaming pile of garbage that was. Springfield XD-S had to be recalled too. Even Ruger and S&W issued recalls for safeties on Mark IV and 390 EZ. S&W issued a stealth replacement for magazine followers in Shield 45 that were hitting mag catch and dropping the mags. Glock, of all people, could not get Glock 42 working reliably at first (although there was no parts breakage). In this sense, SIG didn't do much worse. The percentage of broken strikers was very low when they decided to act. We could easily forgive this if not for the inexcusable behavior in the P320 case. It will take a long time for them to clean up the act.

 

[someguy2800]

That is not a factory glock. That has an agency arms trigger in it.

 

[JR24]

Apologies, I knew I should have specified STOCK. Any of that crap you add to a gun is on you (or the video maker, in this case).

If the 320 drop safe issues occurred on aftermarket triggers, I wouldn't be posting right now.

 

[340PD]

Apologies, I knew I should have specified STOCK. Any of that crap you add to a gun is on you (or the video maker, in this case).

If the 320 drop safe issues occurred on aftermarket triggers, I wouldn't be posting right now.

Point taken. I apologize.

 

[Tallball]

Gonna be tough finding a metal SIG under 3 bills. Might look for a SP2022, especially in .40. Basically a classic P-series with a poly frame. I see these around $300 sometimes.

Nightlord - It didn't take me as long as I thought it might. I won a P229 in 40 caliber for a $309 bid this morning. It's finish-challenged, but came with the case and three mags. I'm 99% sure it's a police turn-in.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the police departments that decided to change from 40 caliber to 9mm. This has allowed me to purchase some high-quality 40 caliber service pistols for very low prices.

(Hint to police departments: 9mm isn't that great either. What you really need to do is change from 9mm to 45acp, once your currently-new pistols have acquired enough holster wear to make them nice and cheap on the resale market.)

 

[JR24]

Nightlord - It didn't take me as long as I thought it might. I won a P229 in 40 caliber for a $309 bid this morning. It's finished challenged, but came with the case and three mags. I'm 99% sure it's a police turn-in.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the police departments that decided to change from 40 caliber to 9mm. This has allowed me to purchase some high-quality 40 caliber service pistols for very low prices.

(Hint to police departments: 9mm isn't that great either. What you really need to do is change from 9mm to 45acp, once your currently-new pistols have acquired enough holster wear to make them nice and cheap on the resale market.)

I wish I could like this twice. I'm still kicking myself for not grabbing the trade in 9's years back.

 

[Tallball]

Thanks JR!

 

[Elkins45]

Sadly, yes. My buddy has one in 40 and it was the pistol he trained me on. He hates to shoot it but he inherited it from his late father so no way he'd sell it. I do see them for sale with both barrels on Armslist every so often but out of state and they don't want to ship. A boy can dream.

Dang. I sure wish I hadn’t sold my P239 in 357. I foolishly sold it after I bought a Glock 33 because it held two more rounds. That was a sweet gun.

On the other hand, I just discovered Bud’s has some brand new P2022s in 357 for $379. I went to pick one up and discovered they don’t have night sights.

 

[Elkins45]

For those interested since it was brought up, and if you're not caliber sensitive, Buds has the 2022 in 357sig for $378. The 9 is $455.

Still, a heck of a deal.

They were listed on the website as NS, which usually means night sights. I went to buy one and it didn’t have night sights. Turns out NS means “no safety”. They changed the listing.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

The 2022 the "poorer person's Sig" has been pretty nice for the price point in the DA/SA configuration. Mine is in the 3K rounds range. That's a pretty nice price at $450 in 9. I like the 229 with SRT better but at 2.2X the price, this model carries enough of that Sig feel into the 2022.

I have the 2022 9mm myself and there's nothing second best about this gun, it's really become one of my favorite guns - feels great, balances great. The only other Sig that has my interest is the 225A1 Classic which still isn't available in my state.

Laura

 

[Ignition Override]

troy fairweather: when you say "German Sigs", lots of people believe that "Made in Germany" only on the frame makes it a 100% German Sig. Let's remind people that this is only part of the story.

All four of my Sigs: the P6, P225 and both P228s were manufactured and proofed in Germany.
Such 100% German Sigs had and might still have legible, tiny proof marks under the muzzle, on the gun's "chin": tiny two-letter date code, nitro proof and usually the 'squashed bug'.

And except for the former surplus "Polizei" P6, all true German Sigs which I have seen should have "Made in Germany",
or "..West Germany", on the gun's slide. Sometimes this is on the left side.

 

[paulsj]

I have the 2022 9mm myself and there's nothing second best about this gun, it's really become one of my favorite guns - feels great, balances great. The only other Sig that has my interest is the 225A1 Classic which still isn't available in my state.

Laura

I'm sure 2022 is good tool just like Glock, S&W M&P, FN, H&K, a steel barrel/slide with cheap plastic frame loaded with cheap heavy sheet metal stamped parts. These things are like Swatches of watch world. Oh crap, I just realized I don't even wear a watch because I take my smart phone everywhere.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'm sure 2022 is good tool just like Glock, S&W M&P, FN, H&K, a steel barrel/slide with cheap plastic frame loaded with cheap heavy sheet metal stamped parts. These things are like Swatches of watch world. Oh crap, I just realized I don't even wear a watch because I take my smart phone everywhere.

I can't take a smart phone everywhere because of my job so I also wear a watch...just because something is made of plastic, doesn't mean it's cheap or doesn't out perform steel frame guns. I also have plastic H&Ks and Glocks but my Sig 2022 is the last gun I'd part with.

 

[Old Dog]

The only other Sig that has my interest is the 225A1 Classic which still isn't available in my state.

Laura

That's a shame it's not available in your state. I love mine, it's quite concealable and oh-so-shootable. One of SIG's new great pistols in my opinion.